Topic: Consolidated Guide for various markings on 1st generation mustangs

[evantugby]

Gents,
I have so many components that I've either rebuilt or restored to mostly like new condition that I am at the point where I need to start replicating the various paint markings, lines, words etc...  I can either ask you guys individually which parts got what (which I'm glad to do) or I thought maybe to ask if there is a resource that already has this information compiled.  I was going to use my 4th edition of Tony Gregory's book but that may not be the best source. 

Has anyone consolidated this information and made a reference we can access?  If so, where?

If this consolidated information doesn't exist in a specific guide, it seems like this information would serve well as the next article in the library so that anyone can search by year, engine code, build plant, timeline, etc. and find the appropriate markings for their vehicle.     

Thoughts? 

[67gtasanjose]

Gents,
I have so many components that I've either rebuilt or restored to mostly like new condition that I am at the point where I need to start replicating the various paint markings, lines, words etc...  I can either ask you guys individually which parts got what (which I'm glad to do) or I thought maybe to ask if there is a resource that already has this information compiled.  I was going to use my 4th edition of Tony Gregory's book but that may not be the best source. 

Has anyone consolidated this information and made a reference we can access? If so, where? 

Thank you,

NO. No guide could possibly be correct for every old Mustang for this info except what you find on your own example. If these are gone, basically...they should be left off of a restoration project.

Perhaps certain details can be duplicated using other known original, unrestored cars as examples of the common practices, but too often a single car ends up as some sort of "template", and duplicated beyond what would REALLY have been typical, outside the correct time frame and assembly plant the particular markings were genuinely for.

Just ask (like ask Jeff). Go to shows and look at UNRESTORED cars (not copying restored cars).

[evantugby]

Well "guides" are just that...a guide.  Of course it can't be 100% correct but I think the smart people on this forum can get pretty dang close. 

[CharlesTurner]

Forums like this one are really the best guide to use.  While it may not all be in one area, we have over 100k posts here with tons of great info. 

Also, while it's not always possible, cleaning/inspecting original parts and areas of the car before restoration will usually yield most of the information needed.  As you may have gathered by reading here, what was done at one assembly plant might have been different in another.  For the most accurate restoration, one should focus on specific assembly line practices during a 2-4 month window of production.

[J_Speegle]

Been asked many times online and before the internet was open to the public. Been collecting for over 40 years and I don't think we are any place close to having any thing worth publishing. Just like others have offered once written it would be out of date, the amount of time it would take to assemble the information would be someones sole purpose and so on

There have been guidelines and handbooks published and IMHO most have more incorrect that correct information in them.

If this consolidated information doesn't exist in a specific guide, it seems like this information would serve well as the next article in the library so that anyone can search by year, engine code, build plant, timeline, etc. and find the appropriate markings for their vehicle.     

Thoughts?

The research IMHO is part of the process and unfortunately sites like this seem to lull owners and builders into believing everything should be available quick and easy. One click away. Some have even suggested that "we" spoil owners.

Every bit of information we have was something someone else took their time, effort and dollars to discover and share with us in hopes that when they had a need they would gain information from others in kind.

Also consider that paint markings, though they are the focus for many, are the last detail one needs to focus on AFTER all other details and issues have been addressed. Too many IMHO want to add on paint marks to their daily driver  with it's tubular A arms, four wheel disc brake, semi-modified car just because or want to have them on their car when it goes up for sale/auction in hopes that some unknowing buyer will see them as assume that the restoration is better then it might be

Down off my soap box

As for a finished product I guess, based on how long it has taken other projects, you might expect it will be done around fall 2029 

[Coralsnake]

The problem as I see it is too many people (not you) are lazy and just want the markings on their car. They dont want to take the time to make sure they are specific to their options, plant or year. We can find many examples of that now....

[67gtasanjose]

The problem as I see it is too many people (not you) are lazy and just want the markings on their car. They dont want to take the time to make sure they are specific to their options, plant or year. We can find many examples of that now....

PREACH it Brother!

[evantugby]

Gents,
Thanks for the responses.  I am amazed at the knowledge you gentlemen have acquired over the years with these mustangs.  I personally have learned so much in the short time I've been active on this site.  I would like to mention the following:  I have my kar completely disassembled down to every wire, every bolt, every clip off my vehicle and spread out on a floor in my two-car garage.  My kar is currently on a rotisserie replacing every piece of metal that needs replacing.  I am using the library to restore nearly every component that has a reference.  I have sent key parts/systems off to experts to rebuild (Fred Ballard, White Post Restorations, Lares Corporation, Phil Severance at PhiDon Restorations etc...).  I have spent big money on finding key components that are date code correct for my kar.  I have flown out the only mechanic I trust to care for my kar as much as I do to assist with the disassembly.  I want this build done right and for the most part done to a concours-level that would make you feel proud.  This is my level of commitment to this build.  Unfortunately I have a short timeline.  This kar must be complete by May because I am heading to Greenland for a year without my kar.  I would like to have it put back together by then with the appropriate markings.  If this "guide" doesn't (and CANNOT) exist in 2018 with as much conclusive information that is out there, frankly I am surprised.  I am surprised that there must have been enough non-standardization/variations that existed between the markings that were being used on these 1st generation mustangs.  So that leads me to ask this:  If the concours community hasn't been able to codify a reference with any confidence, how are concours judges evaluating these mustangs to concours level quality?  Is that a fair question? 

Finally:  Which one of you is willing to be hired as my personal consultant for my 1966 Metuchen Kar to oversee the appropriate markings are emplaced?

Thank you for the help, everyone! 

Evan

     

[CharlesTurner]

Based on what I'm reading, my opinion is you'd be best served to pose the question in the 65-66 section... 'What markings should my car have?'  There are certain ones that are fairly consistent, such as leaf springs, coil springs, drive-shaft, steering box, tie rods, idler arm, center link, strut rods, rear differential, differential housing, shocks.

[J_Speegle]

................ If the concours community hasn't been able to codify a reference with any confidence, how are concours judges evaluating these mustangs to concours level quality?  Is that a fair question? 

It depends on the car and the judge.

Many judges, judge a narrow group of car so they do not need to know all the markings on all the cars.

On cars that have something unusual they will ask the owner/builder where they found that marking and for documentation. Then there are those marks that can be determined as not correct for the application (and lacking documentation) based on experience, those marks applied incorrectly using an uncommon method, size or location, and finally those marks that are common for the specific application your looking at that moment.

Sometimes the car get a pass n the markings that show while the judge or judges educated themselves before the next time they see it or a similar car.

[evantugby]

Based on what I'm reading, my opinion is you'd be best served to pose the question in the 65-66 section... 'What markings should my car have?'  There are certain ones that are fairly consistent, such as leaf springs, coil springs, drive-shaft, steering box, tie rods, idler arm, center link, strut rods, rear differential, differential housing, shocks.

Hi caspian65,
Thanks for the comment.  Am I a dumb dumb?  I can't find a 65-66 section. 

[evantugby]

It depends on the car and the judge.

Many judges, judge a narrow group of car so they do not need to know all the markings on all the cars.

On cars that have something unusual they will ask the owner/builder where they found that marking and for documentation. Then there are those marks that can be determined as not correct for the application (and lacking documentation) based on experience, those marks applied incorrectly using an uncommon method, size or location, and finally those marks that are common for the specific application your looking at that moment.

Sometimes the car get a pass n the markings that show while the judge or judges educated themselves before the next time they see it or a similar car.

I thought this is what concours judging is all about, every little detail correct to the way it left the assembly plant.  BTW:  I would appreciate if we could have a consultation over the phone.  three three four - two 2 1 - zero two one four. 

Thanks 

[drummingrocks]

Evan, is this the car that was cloned into a Shelby?  Which way are you wanting to go--restored to what it was originally delivered with, or restored to what it was cloned into?  My apologies if I'm thinking of a different car.

[carlite65]

Hi caspian65,
Thanks for the comment.  Am I a dumb dumb?  I can't find a 65-66 section.

from the home page just scroll down...remember how you found the library section?? you did not dig deep enough.

[J_Speegle]

...................I can't find a 65-66 section.

This thread is in the 65-66 Section of the Forum