Author Topic: Early VIN Stamping  (Read 5345 times)

Offline Pete Bush

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Early VIN Stamping
« on: August 22, 2010, 08:30:43 AM »
I was reading a comment by Bob Fria where he was talking about the very early Mustangs and stated that a VIN number was stamped on the body. He didn't say fender, as is the case with my '66. Do the bodies of the very early Mustangs have VIN's stamped in them? Why the change to the fender location?
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline CharlesTurner

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2010, 11:00:45 AM »
I've heard of at least one getting stamped on the LH shock tower.  Would be best to contact Bob to get a clarification.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline Pete Bush

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2010, 11:15:25 AM »
Alas, the article I was reading didn't have contact info, and I don't know how to contact Mr. Fria.
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2010, 03:47:39 PM »
Here is the process Mr. Fria explains of the early Mustangs and radiator support codes as they moved through the bucking facility:

“The first or top line, code always starts with a letter and has a numeral assigned to it (ex. A15). This code identifies a 2-rail numbered chassis assembly skid (Tool #49-ZF-3089) upon which the partially assembled chassis was placed. One would presume the numbered skids were used sequentially, but that may not have been the case. Vehicles were assembled with skid numbers not necessarily designating assembly position. As the skid moved down the line, body part assembly was referenced to the skid since no VIN was in place. The skid number did not necessarily correspond sequentially to the VIN number. Once the VIN was stamped on the body and the chassis painted, a paper broadcast sheet providing further detailed instructions for assembly was taped on to the same area of the radiator support.”


I've read a comment by Jim Smart that seconds your information about the VIN stamp on the shock tower, but this seems to be limited to pre-production vehicles with serial numbers at the Allen Park facility.

My interest is the procedure described above, and if it translates to other plants, specifically Dearborn. If it does, then the radiator support picture that Dave posted in the Broadcast Sheet thread is likely to have the D1037 mean the number of the skid that carried the buck. And further, in the Martha Reeves video where they were setting the engine, and we saw broadcast sheets taped to the radiator support, was this the same process of taping broadcast sheets to completed bucks that Mr. Fria mentions?
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline Skyway65

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2010, 07:04:06 PM »
I have a photo of a pilot plant engine bay that I purchased back in '79 from Ford's Photo department at the World Headquarters.  It clearly shows the VIN on the left hand shock tower, not on the usual inner fender location.  It has the "S" pilot designation.  I'm guessing that car is long gone! :'( 

I'll see if I can scan it and post it...
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 08:07:07 PM by Skyway65 »
Gary Schweitzer
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Traverse City, MI

"A work of art in the form of a Mustang"

Offline Skyway65

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2010, 08:07:58 PM »
Let's try this...
Gary Schweitzer
MCA #00181
Traverse City, MI

"A work of art in the form of a Mustang"

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 10:14:43 PM »
Exceptional picture! That explains Mr. Fria's statement. All other cars wouldn't have a VIN number until the fenders joined them on the TC line. Those cars would have to use the 1st rotation number created on the BP line, and then the 2nd rotation number created on the TC line to identify them. Everything else in Mr. Fria's statements should translate to Dearborn production.
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 08:40:04 PM »
Charles,

Do we know when the warranty plate with the car's VIN number was installed on the car door?
If there is paint under the tag, then it must have occurred towards the end of the BP line or the beginning of the TC line. I'm trying to determine under which rotation number the car was "branded" with a VIN.
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 09:59:58 PM »
Exceptional picture! That explains Mr. Fria's statement. All other cars wouldn't have a VIN number until the fenders joined them on the TC line...................

Huh???  What would the fenders have to do with the application of the VIN. If it were applied that late the paint would be broken over the stamping - which it was not.

I'm trying to determine under which rotation number the car was "branded" with a VIN.

Unless we are talking about pilot plant production it was done during the first part of assembly prior to painting


Has seen on Dearborn car with the VIN stamped around the surface (below where the one is in the picture)/ face of the drivers side shock tower.

Will have to look for a picture of that one
Jeff Speegle

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Offline CharlesTurner

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 10:59:49 PM »
Agree with Jeff, not sure what fenders have to do with VIN stampings.  Maybe we're mixing up our terminology.  If you're referring to the welded-in panels, those are commonly called "inner fenders" or "inner aprons."

Also, the picture above was a pre-production photo, most likely a car built at the pilot plant.

Not sure when the warranty plate was affixed.  Obviously after exterior paint.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline Skyway65

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 11:42:19 PM »
For whatever it's worth, near as I can tell, with a magnifying glass, the VIN in the photo is 5S08F100003...
Gary Schweitzer
MCA #00181
Traverse City, MI

"A work of art in the form of a Mustang"

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 08:24:57 PM »
Jeff & Charles,

I don’t know what I was thinking, when I wrote about the VIN’s on the fenders. They are, of course on the inner fender, and would have been stamped on the BP line.

Okay this is where I’m going:

Ford General Offices issued an order for production to one of their three plants after determining an internal need or customer order. They then sent a punch card to the plant that detailed the serial number, how the car was to be equipped, and where to send it.

The plant, upon receiving the production order, generated broadcast sheets to inform line workers of the types of parts and sub-assemblies they would need, and where on the line to direct them. “Where” was controlled by the Rotation Number. We believe that two rotation numbers (ROT) were used, one during BP and one during TC. This is proven, at least in Metuchen, since my 1966 buck tag has a ROT of 18 while my broadcast sheet has one of 126.

Radiator supports were marked with buck information. There is one code that references the 2-rail assembly skid. This usually takes the form of a letter code followed by 3 to 4 numbers. Some very early cars had a letter followed by only two numbers. There is also a code for the body style, the interior and exterior colors, and perhaps some basic accessory codes.

Mr. Fria’s research seems to conclude that this skid number helped to identify the car until the VIN number joined it. In other words, the skid number may have been the surrogate for the rotation number during BP, at least on very early cars. Sometime before painting the body, the VIN number was stamped on the inner fender.

Next we have the warranty tag on the door. We know the door was set at the time of bucking and that the body was painted. If there’s paint under the warranty tag, then its placement couldn’t have occurred any sooner than the end of BP or the beginning of TC. It may be possible that this warranty tag traveled with the buck, and communicated the missing information (such as engine/transmission combo), but this still doesn’t tell the whole story. We know that everything necessary to prepare a buck was not listed on the radiator support and warranty tag. Critical information such as the engine and transmission combination were lacking from radiator support markings. And a vehicle with a convertible or vinyl top would still need to communicate what color these items were, and that info was not included on the warranty tag. If we follow this conclusion to its logical end, then something else close by the body must have communicated this missing info. We know from the Martha Reeves video that broadcast sheets were sometimes affixed to the numbered stanchion posts of the conveyors that moved the body down the line, as seen during the engine-setting operation. This same process may have occurred during the BP operation, and another broadcast sheet with a BP-ROT was likely to have accompanied the buck at that time, and the car’s initial BP-ROT would have insured the correct color placement.

Once cars were shuffled in BP to fit vinyl and convertible tops, ROT”S lose their meaning, and there’s no way to identify them without referring to the serial number. Thus the VIN stamped on the inner fender and/or the warranty tag on the door served an important check/balance in re-synchronization of the ROT’s.

Parts and sub-assemblies subsequently found their way to the correct car by way of the TC-ROT. This couldn’t have been generated too far in advance, since we wouldn’t know what the shuffling order would produce when a car left BP. By the same token, we can’t begin lining up the correct sequence of parts and sub-assemblies until we have the new TC-ROT. This creates a time constraint on the lines, and we can’t have delays!

How does Ford coordinate the re-setting of ROT’s without delaying line production?
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline Pete Bush

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2010, 07:37:00 AM »
I'm still trying to understand the coding and building process.

I've come across several statements that I need clarification on:

1. Besides the visible VIN number, there are hidden ones concealed by the fenders.

2. According to Mustang Monthly, pre-production Mustang #140 has a metal buck tag with a rotation number stamped in it. I thought buck tags weren't used until April 1965 beginning in Metuchen. Was there some limited use before that?
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st

Offline CharlesTurner

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2010, 01:54:41 AM »
Yes, there are usually... or supposed to have been, 2 hidden VIN stampings on the rear inner fenders (section the hood hinges bolt to.)

On the pre-prod, just about everything on the car is unique, so I would not even consider using it as a reference point for production-built cars.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline Pete Bush

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Re: Early VIN Stamping
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2010, 06:48:32 AM »
In summary then, the VIN number is typically stamped in five locations:

The visible stamping on the left inner fender (exception - at least one car stamped on the upper shock tower)

A concealed stamping on the the left inner fender, under the hood hinges,  behind the visible one

A concealed stamping on the right right inner fender, opposite the left-side concealed one

One on the Vehicle Warranty Tag on the door, even though it said "Not for Title or Registration Purposes"

One on the metal buck tag, if it was so equipped
'66 6-cylinder Sprint Convertible
Metuchen - Scheduled May 10th; Built June 21st