Topic: What makes a good candidate for concours restoration?

[sigtauenus]

I just finished my 68 fastback.  Well, its not done, but its drivable I should say.  I entered it in the modified class at the VA Beach show due to some modern improvements. 

I met Charles and thanked him for his help on the car, and he thought it was funny that I got help from him for a car that is in the modified class.  That was a fair, and the deal is I tried to choose original options when modifying the car when possible, but some stuff such as the T-5 and wheels were rather obvious deviations.  I also tried to do things "concours," ie, if I was cleaning and painting something, I used the original color or paint to match (the natural metal paints), and I used a lot of AMK fasteners for the ease of installation (I spent way too many hours in the past cleaning up bolts - no more), and I like the clean look of new hardware.

That said, although my fastback will not be judged in the concours class, I think I did learn quite a bit the past 5 years or so that I've been working on it when I did try to restore various areas of the car to concours.

The point of all this is I have another 68 that I need to decide what to do with.  Its a C code vinyl top coupe with factory a/c, p/s and fog lights.  I haven't ordered the Marti report for more details yet, but that's what I can tell so far.  The car was originally Highland Green, my favorite color, with a black standard interior.  It is currently "resale" red.

Frame, floors, and trunk is solid, but it needs all external sheetmetal replaced.  It has the original engine and transmission each with the partial VIN stamp.

The car is complete and running, but needs a total restoration. 

I'm entertaining the idea of doing this car concours for the challenge of it, and it will be a nicely optioned car when done, and am wondering if this is a good car to start with or if it is better to start with a more original car in better condition.  I'm at the decision point of either selling it as-is or going all-in with the restoration.

[67gta289]

May I suggest asking the following line of questions?

1. Is there any personal connection/history with the vehicle that would cause you to keep the car "no matter what" when you are done?
2. Do you want to break even for real dollars spent and make at least $10/hr (put your own figure in there) for the time you put in?

The first thing to consider is the cost of a concours restoration, both in dollar outlay and hours.  For example, the final cost of reworking an Acapulco Blue 68 J code 4-speed fastback in similar condition would cost virtually the same as the car you discussed.  How much more would it sell for when done?  Moving "up" to a 428 CJ would cost a few percent more to restore, but all things considered still not significantly more.  The entry point (initial vehicle cost) would be more, true, but the restoration not much more.  Yes, you will find the need for a $500 starter relay rather than a $50 one, along with some pricey ram air stuff, but the bulk of the work; sheet metal, suspension, interiors, paint, and yes cleaning up all of the fasteners is pretty much the same cost whether it is a 6 cylinder or a big block.  So if you do the math, if a basic vehicle restoration will cost 100%, a big block might be 10% more, a Shelby 20% more.  Some might argue the exact percentages, but it is not +50 or +100%.  Add to that the initial cost of the vehicle, and you have a total cost.  Then look at the value when you are done.

Of course, it gets complicated when you toss in some passion.  My first car, like my first car, in the family X years/generations, a Marty 1 of 1, and the like, fuel that passion.  I suppose that with no passion at all, it would be like a second job.  You generally will look to make some money on a second job.  The challenge, as you mentioned, is another thing that falls on the side of passion.

As you stated, the car is a V8, it has some nice options.  Your favorite color.  A "challenge" to look forward to.  However, the reality might be that you don't make any return on the hours you put into it.  That's exactly where I am with my project, and I would not have it any other way

Good luck on the decision!

[Sunlitgold68]

You'll be spending a boatload of cash to get the 68 in concours condition and it might still be only worth $20K tops. Unless the car has sentimental value I would go for another mustang. The fact that all the sheet metal needs replacing would make me want to run and never look back! You're looking at $5K or more for NOS Sheet metal alone unless you wanted to use reproduction metal and then I wouldn't see the point in taking it as far as you're planning. It would be a huge challenge, few years, and many hours of working and thinking about it.

[CharlesTurner]

The best candidate for a concours restoration is a car that is relatively rust-free, minimum to no collision damage and retains most of the original parts.

It takes a tremendous amount of time and effort to piece a car together and replace major sheet metal pieces.

Not trying to turn you off to restoration, just being honest.  It's a big commitment of time and money.

[T Lea]

The best way to do a concours restoration is start with the best and most complete car you can. More money upfront (within reason) will save more later. I showed my body man my original panel California/Arizona convertible and his comment was "OK what to you want me to do, scuff it and spray it?" I know thats a bit of an exaggeration but his point is well taken. You can easily save 200+ hours by no panel replacement rust repair and when you are talking 60-80 per hour you see what I mean.

[CharlesTurner]

And even at that 60/80 per hour, there is no guarantee the panel will look and fit exactly like original.  It takes many hours and many years of skill to do it properly.

[Sunlitgold68]

There was a super original 68 highland green coupe on ebay few weeks ago. A survivor with 26,000 miles, final price was $14,000 and it didn't sell.... but that's the kind of car you need to find..... although I wouldn't restore a nice survivor.... for $14K you know what I mean?

[sigtauenus]

Thanks guys.  Its good to bounce ideas off those who have done this.

The bodywork/paint on my fastback was billed at 328 hours, and easily the first 200 of that was rebuilding the back end of the car with quarters, frame, trunk, etc, so I know how that adds up quick. 

[cobrajetchris]

I was told a long time ago by someone that the better car you start with the better car you will finish with. This is definitely true especially when you are doing a concours restoration. The fact is when you are restoring a car to this level there is so many details in the original sheet metal alone that a expert can spot if they have been replaced, such as spot welds on welded parts vs. plug welds that are mostly used. There is factory type spot welders out there but they have limitations. Another issue with replacing any part is FORD date coded everything and that is another challenge finding date code correct parts and you better not be afraid to spend lots of money. As for as restoring the more desirable option cars vs. a common one, I agree the cost is not that much different however if all you are concerned with is getting the most bang for your dollar, I would suggest buying a done car as you will be way ahead in the long run no matter what kind of car it is. The parts of these cars are worth much more than the whole in this market. With all that being said it's not just that easy to find a 40 year old mustang that retains all of it's original parts in restor able condition. The fact is most of these cars today have extensive rust issues unless the car is from the deep southwest and most have seen at least one or more collisions no matter were they are from, and the faster the car was normally the more abuse it received. I think in the end the most important things are figuring out what is most important to you. For example is having a car that retains all of it's original parts most important no matter what body style or options it has or is it more important for you to have a car just like you would of ordered new or is the most bang for your buck the most important? I feel these are some of the things to consider when taking on a restoration. Good luck on your decision and I hope some of these suggestions help in making that decision as I have been there before.

[Sunlitgold68]

You can indeed find good solid cars in other areas of the country, you'll find mostly San Jose built cars out west but there are nice originals at least around North Carolina and you see them on Ebay all over the place too.

Buying a car that somebody else has "done" can also be a major problem as you could easily find a large amount of wrong parts and a mediocre "restoration".

Be a little picky and look for a 50K to 100K mile 1 or 2 owner and you will be in business. They come up on craigslist all the time too, $10K to 15K will get a super nice all original 68 coupe.