Topic: San Jose Feb 66 window guide door bolts?

[Morsel]

I'm wondering if anyone has any shots of or know what the window track/guide bolts and washers looks like on a February 66 San Jose car at the back of the door by the latch? Mine were the similar style as the picture attached of this apron bolts (not same markings), but don't know if they were the originals or not, they look like it, but I haven't found any pictures. Everything I'm seeing posted is the of the more commonly used ones like the ones available from AMK, see additional stock photo attached.

Thanks,

Jason

[J_Speegle]

Here you go - that was an easy one

Top style with the star washer but with the anchor style head marking


BTW the star washer was the typical style for this application through the production year.  Would guess that many "restored" cars have the incorrect hardware since buying kits rather than cleaning and reusing originals became the low effort restoration practice for some 

[Morsel]

Here you go - that was an easy one

Top style with the star washer but with the anchor style head marking


BTW the star washer was the typical style for this application through the production year.  Would guess that many "restored" cars have the incorrect hardware since buying kits rather than cleaning and reusing originals became the low effort restoration practice for some 

Awesome, thanks Jeff... exactly what I was looking for.

Just for curiosity sakes, was this a San Jose specific different application and the other plants used the other flat washer style? Or was this a time period change? Just curious why AMK doesn't do both and why they chose to do the other style...

Thanks,

Jason

[Morsel]

Hey Jeff,

So I just received some more information on this question. According to the guy that has helped me with a lot on my car, there's more to this. I reached out to him to see if he had any of the bolts with the star washer and anchor head marking in his stash of parts and he told me yes he has it but why would I want to change mine since they were original to the car. He said he's seen several (66 only, San Jose cars only) that had both, the star washers on the driver side and the flat on the passenger side, which is exactly what mine had and the way it was. I just thought one side had been replaced at some point. I do have to say the markings in the paint and doors of each style washer would look to be original, I don't see any indication of the star patter indents on the door of the passenger side.

You ever heard of this one?

Thanks,

Jason

[J_Speegle]

Just for curiosity sakes, was this a San Jose specific different application and the other plants used the other flat washer style? Or was this a time period change?

Yes I was responding to the " more commonly used ones" comment in your first post. Yes the flat washers have been found mostly in earlier cars sometimes intermixed with the star style. But for your time period I didn't find the intermixing on my examples along with the unrestored Feb built car in the garage so I responded with what I could document and found

Just curious why AMK doesn't do both and why they chose to do the other style...

Most find it easier to carry one piece for an application rather than multiples of different ones. Having multiples often means allot of phone calls and such as to "what is correct for my car..." questions that vendors dont want to spend all their time answering. Also sourcing has become a challenge for AMK. Bolts and hardware they were able to find years ago have dried up so they sub other similar, used some times or what will work in their place.

[J_Speegle]

.................. He said he's seen several (66 only, San Jose cars only) that had both, the star washers on the driver side and the flat on the passenger side, which is exactly what mine had and the way it was. I just thought one side had been replaced at some point. I do have to say the markings in the paint and doors of each style washer would look to be original, I don't see any indication of the star patter indents on the door of the passenger side.

You ever heard of this one?

Assuming that both doors are original to your car (guess you've confirmed this)  and its not been repainted nor repaired then you have facts that you can document to support your choice.

Have I seen different ones on different sides. No can't recall nor do I have documentation or pictures of other cars such as that in 66 at San Jose

[Morsel]

I'm going to dig a little deeper on this, just because I find this stuff fascinating, haha.

Jason

[jwc66k]

From my Oct 65 San Jose "K" Fastback, left door: the two exposed bolts are Sems disc washer with no sign of adjustment, no other marks in the paint, the one behind the plug is an external tooth type, double quote head.
Jim
I can't get to the right door. The car is parked about four inches from my 65.

[J_Speegle]

From my Oct 65 San Jose "K" Fastback, left door: the two exposed bolts are Sems disc washer with no sign of adjustment, no other marks in the paint,

That matches what I'm seeing from that period

[Morsel]

From my Oct 65 San Jose "K" Fastback, left door: the two exposed bolts are Sems disc washer with no sign of adjustment, no other marks in the paint, the one behind the plug is an external tooth type, double quote head.
Jim
I can't get to the right door. The car is parked about four inches from my 65.

That matches what I'm seeing from that period

So did they change to the star type washer in 66 at San Jose, because the one Jim says is on his October 65 car are the same ones that AMK offers, Sems head marking with the flat disk washer. Now I'm really confused, haha... Or was it just a grab bag which I guess is possible and they just grabbed what was available to them that day.

The other thing is my doors are original to the car, the paint is not. But I am seeing marring in the metal of the doors, star washers on driver side and disk washers on passenger, and all bolts look to be original. I guess they could have been changed at some post and over tightened to leave these marks... I might be over analyzing this, but always fun to find this stuff out and the weird oddities of the change over from 65 to 66 items. My car has been loaded with things from both periods...

Thanks,

Jason

[J_Speegle]

So did they change to the star type washer in 66 at San Jose,

Yes from what I have documentation of San Jose appears to have changed the supplier or what was shipped to them changed for the majority of that application by the time Feb came around. Jim's example is from 4 months earlier.  The plant provided each station with what they wanted used at that station. Workers didn't get to pick and choose what they wanted to use from a variety of different styles. The container may have been emptied (or almost emptied) before it was replaced. Remaining hardware from the prior container may have been dumped into the fresh container and this may have resulted in a mix on some cars in some locations. 

The other thing is my doors are original to the car, the paint is not. But I am seeing marring in the metal of the doors, star washers on driver side and disk washers on passenger, and all bolts look to be original. I guess they could have been changed at some post and over tightened to leave these marks... I might be over analyzing this, but always fun to find this stuff out and the weird oddities of the change over from 65 to 66 items. My car has been loaded with things from both periods...

Just was suggesting that the details be checked before you assume the doors are original to the car which it sounds you have done. Just the basics 

[Morsel]

Yeah, this is just wild to me that they would use different bolts for the same application on the same car, but I know this was a fast moving, use everything process, and the early February 10th build date seems like it coincides with the switch to the star head washers as you have stated...


Thanks, I think because this goes with other oddities I found with my car I'm going to leave it as I found it with both sides being different... to weird not to do it, haha.

Thanks,

Jason

[J_Speegle]

Yeah, this is just wild to me that they would use different bolts for the same application on the same car, but I know this was a fast moving, use everything process, and the early February 10th build date seems like it coincides with the switch to the star head washers as you have stated...

Sorry that is not what I stated Plus the Feb 10th date is purely a guess since we don't know when any of these cars were really built. Saw your post over on the other site and I hope you correct that there also  

The projected build date for the example I have here at home is the 9th of Feb  and it had the stars. Just checked their on both sides and they are stars on both sides

But the chart below should give you a fairly good handle on the question your first asked "I'm wondering if anyone has any shots of or know what the window track/guide bolts and washers looks like on a February 66 San Jose car at the back of the door by the latch"

Without looking at all my pictures I found the following


6R10153x - Smooth
6R10170x - Smooth
6R1050xx - Star
6R1124xx - Star
6R1137xx - Star
6R11631x - Smooth
6R1174xx - Star
6R1201xx - Star
6R12225x - Smooth
6R1225xx - Star
6R1253xx - Star
6R12710x - Smooth
6R1296xx - Star
6R13773x - Smooth
6R1439xx - Star
6R1488xx - Star
6R1524xx - Star
6R1590xx - Star
6R1611xx - Star
6R1639xx - Star

Your car

6R17199x - Smooth
6R1725xx - Star
6R1797xx - Star
6R1857xx - Star
6R1875xx - Star
6R1980xx - Star
6R1991xx - Star
6R2031xx - Star
6R2088xx - Star
6R2165xx - Star
6R2283xx - Star
6R2309xx - Star
6R2313xx - Star



Looks like 6R17199x might have been built out of sequence by a long shot (more than the expected up to three weeks spread found between cars being finished on the line)  VINs place it three months between it and the last smooth example in the search. Or an odd/old box of hardware got mixed into the rotation to that station somehow.


Agree with your choice of leaving them. But be prepared if someone asked how you'll explain it 

Need to take this, since we spent the time to collect, into one of those 66 Mustang Surveys I did earlier in the year.

[Morsel]

Sorry that is not what I stated Plus the Feb 10th date is purely a guess since we don't know when any of these cars were really built. Saw your post over on the other site and I hope you correct that there also  

The projected build date for the example I have here at home is the 9th of Feb  and it had the stars. Just checked their on both sides and they are stars on both sides

But the chart below should give you a fairly good handle on the question your first asked "I'm wondering if anyone has any shots of or know what the window track/guide bolts and washers looks like on a February 66 San Jose car at the back of the door by the latch"

Without looking at all my pictures I found the following


6R10153x - Smooth
6R10170x - Smooth
6R1050xx - Star
6R1124xx - Star
6R1137xx - Star
6R11631x - Smooth
6R1174xx - Star
6R1201xx - Star
6R12225x - Smooth
6R1225xx - Star
6R1253xx - Star
6R12710x - Smooth
6R1296xx - Star
6R13773x - Smooth
6R1439xx - Star
6R1488xx - Star
6R1524xx - Star
6R1590xx - Star
6R1611xx - Star
6R1639xx - Star

Your car

6R17199x - Smooth
6R1725xx - Star
6R1797xx - Star
6R1857xx - Star
6R1875xx - Star
6R1980xx - Star
6R1991xx - Star
6R2031xx - Star
6R2088xx - Star
6R2165xx - Star
6R2283xx - Star
6R2309xx - Star
6R2313xx - Star



Looks like 6R17199x might have been built out of sequence by a long shot (more than the expected up to three weeks spread found between cars being finished on the line)  VINs place it three months between it and the last smooth example in the search. Or an odd/old box of hardware got mixed into the rotation to that station somehow.


Agree with your choice of leaving them. But be prepared if someone asked how you'll explain it 

Need to take this, since we spent the time to collect, into one of those 66 Mustang Surveys I did earlier in the year.

Jeff, it's really starting to look like mine were replaced by this information and by what I'm seeing by others cars on the other forum. The disk style washer and bolts are original, so maybe they were replaced at a service center or something for some reason back in the day. The one thing that's making me believe this to be true is on the inside behind the top circle cover, the bolt holding the window stop is a star washer, so I guess why would they have used that on the inside and the others on the outside. The marring on the door from the disk washer could have been from when they were replaced and just really torqued down. I don't know, it's hard to say what happened, but starting to think by your data you listed and what I'm seeing from other cars is that mine were replaced at some point Was hopeful I had another strange oddity with my car that made it unique...

Oh well, I guess replacing them is probably the way to go... I also made sure to clear things up on the other site just so I don't lead anyone in the wrong direction from my possible bogus findings

Let me know if you have any additional thoughts on this Jeff and if you think it's wise for me to just replace them or leave them...

Thanks as always,

Jason

[J_Speegle]

Jeff, it's really starting to look like mine were replaced by this information and by what I'm seeing by others cars on the other forum. The disk style washer and bolts are original, so maybe they were replaced at a service center or something for some reason back in the day. The one thing that's making me believe this to be true is on the inside behind the top circle cover, the bolt holding the window stop is a star washer, so I guess why would they have used that on the inside and the others on the outside.

There you go trying to make sense of things fifty years later.

I'm not saying that yours could not be original just that that the findings are not the nor or typical for the time period.  See you've gotten input from cars through out the year which can be misleading IMHO.  As stated earlier I'm cool with you using what you found. The rest of the exercise has been in response to what San Jose typically used and when