Topic: Tube nuts (letters)

[Angela]

I don't understand how the "tube nuts" work, which hold the "mustang" & "ford" letters on the deck lid / hood. Can someone guide me through the installation?

I have NOS letters, with pins (for '67), including the tube nuts that came with each letter. Is the tube nut supposed to have an interference fit into the hole in the hood/deck lid? In other words, does the tube nut fastening system only work if the inside diameter of the hole in the hood is a few thousandths less than the OD of the tube nut? That's question #1

Question #2:  If I have to abandon the tube nut approach, what's the alternative installation method? Use the same NOS letters with pins, but use a few dabs of weatherstrip adhesive, applied using a toothpick?

[1967 eight barrel]

Do those tube nuts have a rubber edge? The ones that came off my vehicle didn't. I have also noted the ones serviced by NPD do not fit.

                                                                                                                -Keith

[67gtasanjose]

I don't understand how the "tube nuts" work, which hold the "mustang" & "ford" letters on the deck lid / hood. Can someone guide me through the installation?

I have NOS letters, with pins (for '67), including the tube nuts that came with each letter. Is the tube nut supposed to have an interference fit into the hole in the hood/deck lid? In other words, does the tube nut fastening system only work if the inside diameter of the hole in the hood is a few thousandths less than the OD of the tube nut? That's question #1

I would suspect that primer and paint build up in the hole could cause for a tight fit. Try testing the hole diameters. Once the holes are confirmed, your NOS tube nuts should start pretty easily... then bump them in with something hard/plastic, like the top of an old round-top screwdriver and light hammer punches.

[Angela]

Thanks guys...it's good to know that the tube nuts from NPD don't work well. I was considering purchasing a set to experience with.

Yes, my NOS tube nuts have rubber on one end. Is that to keep the letters from vibrating against the paint?

Are the tube nuts designed to work with a specific thickness of paint? The factory paint was a lot thinner than the spray-able polyester + base + clear I used.

I still think I like the idea of skipping the tube nuts altogether. Has anyone used the pins on the letters for alignment, while using an adhesive to hold them to the car? If yes, what adhesive did you use? Tips?

[67gtasanjose]

Thanks guys...it's good to know that the tube nuts from NPD don't work well. I was considering purchasing a set to experience with.

Yes, my NOS tube nuts have rubber on one end. Is that to keep the letters from vibrating against the paint?

Are the tube nuts designed to work with a specific thickness of paint? The factory paint was a lot thinner than the spray-able polyester + base + clear I used.

I still think I like the idea of skipping the tube nuts altogether. Has anyone used the pins on the letters for alignment, while using an adhesive to hold them to the car? If yes, what adhesive did you use? Tips?

Personally, I feel any form of "glued on" method is detectable. The "mirror image" in the paint isn't correct-looking IMHO.

[ruppstang]

Thanks guys...it's good to know that the tube nuts from NPD don't work well. I was considering purchasing a set to experience with.

Yes, my NOS tube nuts have rubber on one end. Is that to keep the letters from vibrating against the paint?

Are the tube nuts designed to work with a specific thickness of paint? The factory paint was a lot thinner than the spray-able polyester + base + clear I used.

I still think I like the idea of skipping the tube nuts altogether. Has anyone used the pins on the letters for alignment, while using an adhesive to hold them to the car? If yes, what adhesive did you use? Tips?

I understand your desire to make your car (better) than new. It is true that there are many new and better products and techniques today. Concours to me means as the car was built by Ford and delivered by the Ford dealer. I would not use the NOS tube nuts that are padded, they are service replacements. Most body supply houses have the bare tube nuts like what the assembly line used. They hold very securely if installed in the correct size hole.

[Angela]

Thanks for the feedback concerning gluing the letters on. I could have sworn I'd seen thread about folks going that route and that the end result was that the glue was nearly undetectable. Perhaps I'm mistaken on that account.

OK, it's good to know the original tube nuts did not have rubber on them. Can you offer a source for the "correct" tube nuts? How do I correctly size the nuts for the correct size hole in my hood? In other words, are these nuts available for varying sized holes in the sheet metal, while accommodating a fixed diameter pin on these specific letters?

[CharlesTurner]

Most any tube nut in the correct size should be fine, I prefer the ones without the rubber on the end for a tighter fit.  I use the end of a wooden handle hammer to pop the clips in the holes.  If you have a lot of paint/primer build up, you may want to use a small round file to remove the excess material.  Risk of cracking/chipping the surrounding paint is possible with a lot of material build-up.

[Angela]

Where are you guys getting the "correct" tube nuts for this application? I've checked McMaster-Carr, grainger, fastenal without any luck. The NOS tube/sleeve nuts I have include rubber tips, which I'm reading (here) are not correct. I also read that the version sold by NPD is no good/doesn't fit?

[1967 eight barrel]

Angela,
I have about 18 ford 1/8" tube nuts it you want them. Send me a message and I'll get them to you.

                                                                                              -Keith

[Angela]

Right or wrong, all I have at the moment are the sleeve nuts that came in the box with each ford/mustang letter. They do appear to have a very thin layer of plastic or rubber at one end (see pic above). I still need help, please

(1) I assume the process is to first insert the sleeve nut into the hold in the hood/deck-lid. Correct? If yes, how do I determine the correct ID of the hole needed in the hood, before inserting the sleeve nut? My hood and deck lid are original, so the holes exist. However, they fill up with primer and paint and I don't know how much to clean them out for the sleeve nuts to fit and hold (service parts)
(2) Since there is A LOT more primer and paint on the panel then when ford painted them originally, how do I know the sleeve nut will actually hold? Are there longer sleeve nuts available? If yes, where? (I can't find any)
(3) It seems like the pin of the NOS letters has a MUCH larger outside diameter than the ID of the tube nut, meaning that I will have to push very hard to get the pin inserted. Is this to be expected?

(4) I know I've already asked, but I still think it seems like some sort of emblem adhesive would be a better way to go, even though I admit that would be a deviation from concours. I'm certain I've previously read some advice about going that route, but I cannot find it at present.

[67gtasanjose]

Right or wrong, all I have at the moment are the sleeve nuts that came in the box with each ford/mustang letter. They do appear to have a very thin layer of plastic or rubber at one end (see pic above). I still need help, please

(1) I assume the process is to first insert the sleeve nut into the hold in the hood/deck-lid. Correct? If yes, how do I determine the correct ID of the hole needed in the hood, before inserting the sleeve nut? My hood and deck lid are original, so the holes exist. However, they fill up with primer and paint and I don't know how much to clean them out for the sleeve nuts to fit and hold (service parts)
(2) Since there is A LOT more primer and paint on the panel then when ford painted them originally, how do I know the sleeve nut will actually hold? Are there longer sleeve nuts available? If yes, where? (I can't find any)
(3) It seems like the pin of the NOS letters has a MUCH larger outside diameter than the ID of the tube nut, meaning that I will have to push very hard to get the pin inserted. Is this to be expected?

(4) I know I've already asked, but I still think it seems like some sort of emblem adhesive would be a better way to go, even though I admit that would be a deviation from concours. I'm certain I've previously read some advice about going that route, but I cannot find it at present.

1.) Yes. an 1/8" drill in your fingertips usually works good. If you are concerned about exposing metal, a tiny round file could do the job "slower"
2.) Unless you have substantial body filler, there should be no issue.
3.) If the holes are the correct sized, the tube nuts are slit and expand to aide in securing the emblems.
4.) See previous comments relating to use of an adhesive. FWIW, most emblems that people use adhesive on are plastic, not metal. You might have one crack loose and loose an emblem (could happen, not WILL happen)

[Angela]

I finally got my hands on a few different types of tube/sleeve/barrel nuts and did some experimentation with some old letters and some scrap sheet metal. I learned a few things as well as ran into more trouble:

(1) The diameter of the "padded" head on the barrel nuts from AMK is slightly smaller than the NOS ones you'll find on ebay. This helps if you want the padded feature without it being visible once the letter is installed.
(2) The padded head peels right off of the NOS barrel nuts, should you not want that feature.
(3) for the 3/32" studded letters which use a 1/8" barrel nut, experimentally I have found that drilling a 0.128" dia hole is the sweet spot. You can go up to a 0.135" dia hole, which makes it easier to push the letter into place, but sometimes the barrel nuts are a little loose afterwards
(4) Heat from a heat gun will allow you to very slightly bent a letter pin so that they fit into the holes better


Now for my new-found problem:
The factory barrel nuts appear to be designed to work with panel thickness (sheet metal + paint) up to about 0.045". Anything thicker than that and you're screwed.
Even though I have a CA car without any rust whatsoever, I have discovered that someone (me) got a bit carried away with sprayable body filler. In short, the areas where the ford and mustang letters go have a LOT of polyester under the paint. It's very difficult for me to measure, but I estimate that the sheet metal + primer + filler + sealer + base + clear totals somewhere in the 0.050" < X < 0.100".... lets say it's 80 thousandths.... WAY too thick for the barrel nuts to work.
I tried an experiment... I took a scrap of sheet metal, drilled the holes for one letter, then added 0.100" layer of bondo on it. I even painted it to make it easier to see paint cracking. Just as I thought, the features in the barrel nuts that are designed to grab the sheet metal are too shallow to work in this application where the paint is thick. One of two things happens: (a) the letter installs but the barrel nuts will fall out of the holes with little effort -or- (b) the barrel nuts crack the bondo during installation.

So now what? Any suggestions? I found what appear to be longer barrel nuts (and ordered some) but they don't appear to have any feature to grab the sheet metal. Am I stuck to using glue to affix the NOS letters to my hood and deck lid? Or, do I have to resort to the undesirable "stick-on" letters?

The only other thing I noticed, which I don't really want to use on this car.... is that if I first install the barrel nuts to the letters, I can carefully add a drop of instant glue to each barrel and insert it into my test piece (sheet metal + thick bondo). Then, the letter + barrel nuts is stuck there very well. The down side is that you get one shot at it... if you try to remove the letter, the glue is stuck to the stud, barrel and bondo and any attempt to remove the letter pulls a large chunk of paint & bondo with it.

Suggestions?

[ruppstang]

I would remove a few thousands of paint around the hole then treat it with some POR 15 or other rust stop right before you insert the letter.
Just a note the thicker the build up of paint and fillers the more prone to it is to chips, shrinkage and damage. Original Ford paint was very thin.

[Angela]

Ya, I know that the thicker the paint the easier it is to chip.... :-( It surely wasn't my goal to have applied more material than was needed.

Interesting idea. So you're essentially suggesting that I create small craters under each letter, so that the barrel nuts will engage the sheet metal. Interesting. It would be very tricky to somehow remove paint only around the circumference of the barrel nut, so that it would not be visible when the letter was installed. I'm not sure how one would do that...