Topic: Cougar - May 7 69 Build. Need help, messed up...

[69428SCJ]

Friends, I am in need of some help interpreting what I have. I made the rookie mistake of not documenting ENOUGH of my disassembly and cleaning/degreasing prior to being media blasted, and have many questions about what I have taken pictures of. Please visit the website I made for the car, www.my69cougareliminator.com to see all the pictures I've taken, and to find out more of the significance my car has to me and my family. This thread might get a little long in the tooth, so I apologize in advance. Also, I have bookmarked about 50 different threads, answering most of my questions, but I still have a few. Here they are:

Has anyone seen this mark before in a similar location or what it would symbolize?


Or this one?


Of all the cowl photos I've seen, I've never seen another one look like mine in this spot. Now, it looks to me like when they painted the car, they didn't extend the body color past the pinch weld here. Could there be another explanation?


Here's another, wider shot but poorer quality picture. Also, notice the amount of sound deadener coverage. Has anyone else seen that amount on the wheel well?


Here's what the shade of slop gray looks like on my car. It seems to me the factory worker spread the sound deadener in more places than might be considered standard? Also, notice the piece of welding wire that has managed to hang on for all these years.


Again with the sound deadener, was this amount of coverage normal going all the way up the floor pan back this far?



Here's what was left of my buck tag. Was the tag attached after primer but before black paint, or was it bare metal attachment?


I did the worst thing to my axle, took it straight to the blaster without so much as thinking about markings. Sadly the N-case was swapped out at some point so I will need a new one. But I do remember what I thought to be a mark at the 5 o'clock position. Two questions with this, 1) is the shade/sheen of the axle the same as the engine bay, and 2) has anyone seen a mark similar to the one that I believe is at the 5 o'clock on the axle?


Sadly I had to junk this part, but it's dated perhaps earlier than one might see. Two questions here, 1) what is the general rule of thumb when it comes to date coding? Specifically, how old is too old when it comes to date coding? and 2) where can I find this part, it's the axle brake hose. I have searched and searched for this part number, but cannot find much about it?


Those are all the questions I have for the moment, I will post more pictures after your responses to these questions. Thanks for all your help!!!

[Mike_B_SVT]

Your sound deadener looks pretty comparable to mine (even though mine is an Oct '69 built '70).  Front wheel well areas are nice and thick and thorough, like yours.
My floors are ... odd.  Nice thick coverage on the passenger side, almost no coverage / very thin on the driver's side, LOL!

[J_Speegle]

................... I have bookmarked about 50 different threads, answering most of my questions, but I still have a few. Here they are:

Has anyone seen this mark before in a similar location or what it would symbolize?

Picture is very large and can't tell where the mark is. Is it on a frame rail? if so no haven't seen one there

Or this one?

Little blue line on top of the radiator support? Looks like a drip from someone painting something (after the factory) - touchup

Of all the cowl photos I've seen, I've never seen another one look like mine in this spot. Now, it looks to me like when they painted the car, they didn't extend the body color past the pinch weld here. Could there be another explanation?

Think your comparing two surfaces - one that only shows paint and was protected from the wheel well application of the heavy and fairly complete sound deadener and one that got a heavy coat of sound deadener. The splash shield protected the painted surface from the later spraying. Yes there is a little (what appears to be redo oxide up in that corner pocket the thin overlaying paint coat may have worn away but I would have to clean all the sound deadener from that edge to the shock tower, trying not to remove any underlying body color to determiner is and what is there. IMHO really don't have the facts visible in this example

Here's another, wider shot but poorer quality picture. Also, notice the amount of sound deadener coverage. Has anyone else seen that amount on the wheel well?

Guessing this is a Dearborn car??  Cougars often seem to have gotten an extra 30 seconds with the wand and are often more generous with the sound deadener in the front wheel wells from my experience

Here's what the shade of slop gray looks like on my car. It seems to me the factory worker spread the sound deadener in more places than might be considered standard? Also, notice the piece of welding wire that has managed to hang on for all these years.


Again with the sound deadener, was this amount of coverage normal going all the way up the floor pan back this far?

Here's what was left of my buck tag. Was the tag attached after primer but before black paint, or was it bare metal attachment?

The primer relationship makes little difference since they didn't apply primer in that area. It was installed before the black was applied so the radiator support behind the buck tag should be bare or show a color marking on some cars that indicated the type of car being built


 

Two questions with this, 1) is the shade/sheen of the axle the same as the engine bay, and

No

 

2) has anyone seen a mark similar to the one that I believe is at the 5 o'clock on the axle?

Are you referring to the "stripe" on the housing?  Is that paint or simply a drag mark through the age and crud. If its paint and you can remove it with paint stripper and show the black under it no I've not seen that before. Typically (there is another recent thread in the 71-3 section) there was large white, yellow or orange, coding that is found in that general area of the housing

Sadly I had to junk this part, but it's dated perhaps earlier than one might see. Two questions here, 1) what is the general rule of thumb when it comes to date coding? Specifically, how old is too old when it comes to date coding? and 2) where can I find this part, it's the axle brake hose. I have searched and searched for this part number, but cannot find much about it?

Think your confusing part numbers (number in books, documents and on the packaging) with engineering numbers (those applied to the part itself.

The date gap depends on the plant and part typically and IMHO can not be addressed with a blanket (for example everything 60 to 45 days) statement. Must be looked at as individual parts put on cars built at the same plant. Think my 69 Dearborn built Boss thread has some pictures of the same pieces and it was a April 24th built car so you can compare yours with those.

[69428SCJ]

Picture is very large and can't tell where the mark is. Is it on a frame rail? if so no haven't seen one there

Yes, the orangeish mark on the frame rail. My apologies for the large pictures, usually they resize but I guess not in this case

Little blue line on top of the radiator support? Looks like a drip from someone painting something (after the factory) - touchup

Yes, the blue line. That had never occurred to me, but since I haven't seen any blue in any of the reference photos on the site, I can see that.

Think your comparing two surfaces - one that only shows paint and was protected from the wheel well application of the heavy and fairly complete sound deadener and one that got a heavy coat of sound deadener. The splash shield protected the painted surface from the later spraying. Yes there is a little (what appears to be redo oxide up in that corner pocket the thin overlaying paint coat may have worn away but I would have to clean all the sound deadener from that edge to the shock tower, trying not to remove any underlying body color to determiner is and what is there. IMHO really don't have the facts visible in this example

Seeing the slight appearance of red oxide is what confused me. Based off what I've read here, and the paint application pattern on the cowl, I thought this section where all three panels meet wouldn't be showing any primer. Sadly I had the car blasted before I did any further investigating, hence the subject of this thread.

Guessing this is a Dearborn car??  Cougars often seem to have gotten an extra 30 seconds with the wand and are often more generous with the sound deadener in the front wheel wells from my experience

Yes, Dearborn car. That was what also confused me, as I understood it, there should have been some visible color in this section, instead of a complete covering of the sound deadener. Thank you for clearing that up.

The primer relationship makes little difference since they didn't apply primer in that area. It was installed before the black was applied so the radiator support behind the buck tag should be bare or show a color marking on some cars that indicated the type of car being built

Okay, I thought I had read in one of the paint sequence/coverage threads I had that the engine bay received red oxide primer prior to the black paint being applied.
 

No

Pretty simple. Is there a recommended spray gun formula, or is *gasp* the rattle can suitable?

Are you referring to the "stripe" on the housing?  Is that paint or simply a drag mark through the age and crud. If its paint and you can remove it with paint stripper and show the black under it no I've not seen that before. Typically (there is another recent thread in the 71-3 section) there was large white, yellow or orange, coding that is found in that general area of the housing

Yes, I was referring to the stripe on the housing. I didn't think that was a factory marking, but thought I would confirm.

Think your confusing part numbers (number in books, documents and on the packaging) with engineering numbers (those applied to the part itself.

It is possible I'm confusing engineering and part numbers, I am admittedly ignorant on the differences between those numbers. Thank you for that tidbit of information.

The date gap depends on the plant and part typically and IMHO can not be addressed with a blanket (for example everything 60 to 45 days) statement. Must be looked at as individual parts put on cars built at the same plant. Think my 69 Dearborn built Boss thread has some pictures of the same pieces and it was a April 24th built car so you can compare yours with those.

I will do that, thank you for all the input!

[J_Speegle]

Okay, I thought I had read in one of the paint sequence/coverage threads I had that the engine bay received red oxide primer prior to the black paint being applied.
 
Pretty simple. Is there a recommended spray gun formula, or is *gasp* the rattle can suitable?

It was applied I think more of an extension (that year and plant) of the red oxide application to the unibody - mainly radiation support rear surface rearward. We see allot of bare steel when the black was not applied in a good coat on the face of the radiator support, sides of hood bumper supports and so on. Appears that it just faded away (no masking) or that is where they started flowing paint.

So if it is visible on the finished car I yet to find a red oxide primer in a can that isn't flat . Looking for something that has a smooth and slightly glossy finished look. Yes you can start with Ditzler/PPG epoxy primer sealer DP74LF and tint from there to find a match.

[69428SCJ]

It was applied I think more of an extension (that year and plant) of the red oxide application to the unibody - mainly radiation support rear surface rearward. We see allot of bare steel when the black was not applied in a good coat on the face of the radiator support, sides of hood bumper supports and so on. Appears that it just faded away (no masking) or that is where they started flowing paint.

So if it is visible on the finished car I yet to find a red oxide primer in a can that isn't flat . Looking for something that has a smooth and slightly glossy finished look. Yes you can start with Ditzler/PPG epoxy primer sealer DP74LF and tint from there to find a match.

That clears up quite a bit then, thanks for the paint number. For clarification, my rattle can comment question was more in line with wondering whether or not rattle canning the axle produces an acceptable shade and sheen, or if there was a more appropriate spray gun mixture.

[J_Speegle]

That clears up quite a bit then, thanks for the paint number. For clarification, my rattle can comment question was more in line with wondering whether or not rattle canning the axle produces an acceptable shade and sheen, or if there was a more appropriate spray gun mixture.

You can get a respectable finish out of a rattle can for the rear axle housing though a paint for the spray gun with hardener will hold up better in the long run and maintain that slight gloss rather than going flatter

For the paint check locally since regulations differ allot across the country and in other countries a suggest that is legal to buy and spray in one part is possibly unavailable in another.

[69428SCJ]

Doing some "carcheology" tonight and discovered the paint on my coil springs. I'm not sure what colors I'm looking at, robin egg blue and yellow? I'm hoping y'all can help me out with this. I don't have a data sheet to guide me on this one so I'm at a disadvantage. I'll be posting my leafs soon as I'm the same boat with those.

[J_Speegle]

Doing some "carcheology" tonight and discovered the paint on my coil springs. I'm not sure what colors I'm looking at, robin egg blue and yellow? I'm hoping y'all can help me out with this. I don't have a data sheet to guide me on this one so I'm at a disadvantage. I'll be posting my leafs soon as I'm the same boat with those.

Best guess I can provide is a couple of partial possibilities based on a couple of buildsheets from similar 69 Cougars

Three stripes  Most likely

Light Blue - Light Blue - and a third color I don't know the conversion (letters to color) of but its not yellow or white

Identified as "LN" so possibly Light - Something 

[69428SCJ]

After discussing it with Mike_B_SVT, all the R-code Eliminators he has build sheets for have Gold/Gray listed as the front spring colors. I've attached a picture of after considerably deeper cleaning. Now comes the next challenges with attached pictures:

The leafs. They look yellow/yellow but the bottom one might be tan?

The motor mounts, I see this pinkish red color on many of my other parts (tie rod adjusting sleeve), but I had no idea I'd see all these colors on the mounts.

One adjusting sleeve, and center link had just a white daub on it?

Steering box and Pitman arm, painted black? I thought they were both supposed to be natural finish...

I apologize if these questions are nonsensical or if the answers are more nuanced than straight forward. I've spent countless hours on this site bookmarking every single thread I could about suspension coloring and didn't see anything specifically relevant to my car. I don't know if these marks are unique to my car or there is some predictability to what's on my car based on build date/engine/suspension type.

[J_Speegle]

After discussing it with Mike_B_SVT, all the R-code Eliminators he has build sheets for have Gold/Gray listed as the front spring colors. I've attached a picture of after considerably deeper cleaning.

All my examples were non-Eliminators. Just make sure they match transmission, options, production date and being Eliminators eliminates the body style issues. Glad he could help out

The leafs. They look yellow/yellow but the bottom one might be tan?

Take some very light sandpaper or just a little car polish on a rag and wipe where the paint is thickest. Then wet the surface and take a look. Often the top layer will get discolored or altered by the exposure to the elements and age. Rear springs can be more difficult to match colors than other parts but are similar to front springs in difficulty IMHO.  Often we have to result (in Mustangs) to the engineering number matching but since there is no collection of rear spring markings for Cougars that's not going to work.  Mike should have some idea of rear spring colors also from the build sheets just check the other details for best chance if the cleaning process does not turn up a positive results.  Last ditch option is take a little lye based oven cleaner daub it on a section of paint and watch for color as the lye reacts with the paint.  Of course the color you see with be  a lighter version of the base color

The motor mounts, I see this pinkish red color on many of my other parts (tie rod adjusting sleeve), but I had no idea I'd see all these colors on the mounts.

Often we'll find white between the two parts that make up 69 and 70 steel engine mounts. Haven't seen a mark on the bottom like that. Again clean off the top layer , document and replace  is sometimes the best you can do. During these years sometimes there is a yellow mark on the surface where they bolt to the shock tower unseen once they are installed on the car

One adjusting sleeve, and center link had just a white daub on it?

Steering box and Pitman arm, painted black? I thought they were both supposed to be natural finish...

Not unusual to find by 69 Darborn blacking out the steering boxes but that was from above and with a brush. Yous appears to be some PO that removed it and painted it black or its a replacement/rebuilt/repaired on that was spray painted black, believe you should find some threads on how they typically were originally