Topic: Ball Joints 67, Upper and Lower Arm Rebuilding

[67gtasanjose]

My question is if I am restoring my 67 Upper and lower Arms, what is the best source of a quality replacement ball joint or ball joint boot without buying NOS Ball Joints at over $250 each or just a NOS boot for $200 a pair?

Not going for THOROUGHBRED ever but trying to get really close to Concours as practical. ( I just watched these parts go crazy on eBay, NO WAY I'll go that route on this project)

[67gta289]

Richard,

I used Moog ball joints.  Riveted in using a hydraulic press.  In the past I've used a "Rosie the riveter" type tool, but they can be very unwieldy and noisy compared to the slow and steady press.

For the dust shields I used the reproductions available from NPD.  Like most reproduction parts, I would classify them as a reasonable facsimile of the original, but not exact.

A word of caution though - after mine were installed I found that on one of the two wheels, the upper ball joint dust shield center metal ring was binding on the ball joint stud.  The ID of the boot was smaller than the OD of the stud where it ended up residing when everything was torqued down.   As I moved the spindle to simulate steering from end to end, the interference resulted in a partially pulled out boot out of the retaining ring that was riveted in.  Fortunately I was able to get a jewelers file in the right position to remove enough material to eliminate the binding, and slip the boot back under the ring.  I recommend test fitting when on the bench, before the rivets are installed.  Hopefully I'm painting the picture sufficiently.

[J_Speegle]

Moog riveted in with the proper boot.

[ruppstang]

Moog riveted in with the proper boot.

+1 Marty

[67gtasanjose]

 
OK, final throws of preparing for this task...

1.) Correct Boots; Upper and Lowers ~CHECK
2.) MOOG Upper Ball Joints ~CHECK
3.) Original Lower Ball Joints (re-usable) ~CHECK
4.) Reproduction Lower B J boot retainer & gasket kits ~CHECK

NEEDS or more info needed:
1.) What UPPER Ball Joint boot retainer should I use? (the ones supplied by MOOG?)
2.) What tooling to install the rivets? (I have a 20-ton press & high quality air-chisel). Wanting to reproduce the "waffle pattern" that should be on original uppers.
3.) ORIGINAL UPPERS were replaced years ago; could use image of direction & Type of rivets originally used. (for Nov. 66 San Jose car)
4.) Are the replacement lower boot retainers Va. Classic sells OK to use or should I consider sending originals out for re-plating.

I'm sure I'll have other questions pending some of these answers. Thanks in advance

[67gta289]

Richard, my comments are:

1. Regarding the upper ball joint boot, as stated in a previous post I did experience that the correct repro boots (somewhat of an oxymoron) had an inner metal ring inside diameter that was too small.  It would bind on the ball joint stud, and not "slip" as the spindle was turned.  Since the stud is tapered, it is somewhat of a crap shoot and difficult to check on the bench.  Something to be wary of.  I had to file mine in place, and it was time consuming.

2. I bought tooling from http://www.rivetsinstock.com/?gclid=CP2Vw-vA3dECFRu2wAodpZkB0g which is about 5 mile from me.  I much prefer riveting using the press - the air tool + vise + clamp method was pretty violent and I was concerned about collateral damage.  With a press you can be slow but sure.

3. I've attached pictures of what I think would be correct for your car

4. For the lowers I used correct repro boots (ugh) and did not have the interference problem discussed above regarding the uppers.  I ended up reusing original retainer plates, I did not like the differences in the repro.  On mine the original rivets were not waffled like the upper, they were a dome style.

[67gtasanjose]

1. Regarding the upper ball joint boot, as stated in a previous post I did experience that the correct repro boots ... Something to be wary of. 

Understood. I have a pair of the reproductions for UPPER & LOWERs, and a NOS set to match up with. I have un-torn originals too for lowers but they are getting changed (swollen)

2. I bought tooling from http://www.rivetsinstock.com/?gclid=CP2Vw-vA3dECFRu2wAodpZkB0g which is about 5 mile from me.  I much prefer riveting using the press - the air tool + vise + clamp method was pretty violent and I was concerned about collateral damage.  With a press you can be slow but sure.

Got it. Yes, good sources of correct tooling and experiences of "Don't do it this way..." are a great help. I can practice a little on a spare lower I have in setting things so that helps too. I could consider sending them to a restorer, but like you...I'd like to try. I get very similar jobs all of the time at my day-job of owning a repair shop so it may come in handy to have tooling and rivets to do this for other vehicles outside the vintage Mustang spectrum.

3. I've attached pictures of what I think would be correct for your car

The picture of the UPPERS helps a lot. I still have the original lowers in place but I am sure your images will help other readers.

4. For the lowers I used correct repro boots (ugh) and did not have the interference problem discussed above regarding the uppers.  I ended up reusing original retainer plates, I did not like the differences in the repro.  On mine the original rivets were not waffled like the upper, they were a dome style.

Thanks. I'll consider the match-up of the retainers after I take these apart. (see attached picture) The Daniel Carpenter reproductions that Va. Classic sent look pretty good next to the assembled original. As far as the rivets, good confirmation for the lowers. Same as what I have and I know my LEFT lower is original, my RIGHT lower was off another December 66 San Jose and is identical to my November 2nd car and looks much like the April 67 SJ I have as an extra arm.
Good to see at least one thing that didn't change (much) on a 67 Mustang over the course of the production year! I still need to order the lower arm bushings, sites were asking the diameter when I was searching and did not want the wrong ones so I waited. Not sure when or why there would be two different lower bushing diameters. Maybe another reader knows why/when they changed some of them.

[Bob Gaines]

I am anxiously standing by to hear about anyones experience in pressing the rivets. I am wondering how well the 20 ton press does in pressing the rivets . Best of luck. Keep us posted .

[jwc66k]

2. I bought tooling from http://www.rivetsinstock.com/?gclid=CP2Vw-vA3dECFRu2wAodpZkB0g

I have bought tooling and rivets from them as well. Could you be more specific with a link as to what tooling you actually got.
Jim

[67350#1242]

I am anxiously standing by to hear about anyones experience in pressing the rivets. I am wondering how well the 20 ton press does in pressing the rivets . Best of luck. Keep us posted .

+1     Is 20 ton big enough?

[ruppstang]

 We used a 40 ton press and it was kind of scary. I need to build a jig to hold the arm but was lazy hand held it by hand, won't do tat again. I used the air hammer on the last ones and they turned out well.

[J_Speegle]

The press and the application of the rivets are a challenge we see them where they are not the right size to start with, not the original finish, not compress enough or over compressed and damaged.   Then you get to add in the concours details like the waffle pattern. I've seen the collection of dies at Rare Parts and they must have a dozen different waffle patterns - all due to different owners wanting something slightly (or way off IMHO) different from what they were offering at the time

[preaction]

The press and the application of the rivets are a challenge we see them where they are not the right size to start with, not the original finish, not compress enough or over compressed and damaged.   Then you get to add in the concours details like the waffle pattern. I've seen the collection of dies at Rare Parts and they must have a dozen different waffle patterns - all due to different owners wanting something slightly (or way off IMHO) different from what they were offering at the time 

Jeff, does rare parts have the parts and ability to do this job correctly ?  -Concours-

[CharlesTurner]

Marcus Anghel also restores control arms and has fixtures/dies to do the rivets correctly.

[J_Speegle]

Jeff, does rare parts have the parts and ability to do this job correctly ?  -Concours-

Since it appears that we're making this thread the default Ball joint discussion let me approach this in a different direction

First lets look at some original rivets so that we have something to compare all the restorations and efforts to. After that I'll try and post some pictures of other efforts and you and others can compare

The following are from my April 69 Dearborn example. Unfortunately over the last few years a couple of the boots ripped So luckily I shot a few pictures before I had them redone. I know - imagine that

Believe current (in the pictures tone/color of the rivet has changed over the years and through the cleaning process)



Upper A arm rivet - top of rivet



Upper A arm rivet - bottom of rivet



Lower top of rivet



Lower bottom of the rivet