Topic: '65 NJ Buck Tag: PI instead of PIO for a GT?

[CharlesTurner]

I stick a finger in the rear frame rail to see if there is a crush tube there, both sides if you are a skeptic. It's only present on factory GT or on "K" Mustangs. It can be faked, but if there's a doubt, look in the trunk over the rails to see how much cutting and welding was done. If someone went to all this trouble, and you can't tell, then I guess it's for real. On the plus side, you don't have to take out the rear seat. On the minus side, your knees get dirty.
Jim

That is not there on the pre-Feb/March '65 K codes... cars with Arvinode and transverse do not have that style rear frame rail setup.

This is a glaring error in the K code book.

[CharlesTurner]

In my opinion, there are many other things to look at other than a buck tag for GT identification.  As mentioned, the exhaust reinforcements are a big one.  Also, a GT should have a 5 dial instrument cluster, so if the car has standard interior, it has to have the dip in the dash structure for the cluster to clear. 

Also, have found 'Addressograph' stamping on original buck tags.  Very faint, but very cool when seen.  If too much paint applied, easy to cover up.

[drummingrocks]

I went by yesterday and got some pictures of the car.  I felt inside the rear framerails, and the crush tubes are there on both sides.  I didn't remove the back seat to look for the reinforcement plates, but I can see the correct hangers from the bottom side of the car.  I also wish I could pull the instrument cluster, as that would be a dead giveaway if the car came with the long speedometer or the 5-dial cluster originally.

[CharlesTurner]

An A code GT should have the square corner snubber plate welded to the floor also, same as a K code.

[drummingrocks]

An A code GT should have the square corner snubber plate welded to the floor also, same as a K code.

You mean the pinion snubber?  There is a snubber plate above the rearend, welded to the floor.  I didn't get a picture of it.

[sgl66]

Check for the relocated rear brake hose bracket also if you still have access

[drummingrocks]

Check for the relocated rear brake hose bracket also if you still have access

Not sure if this helps or not:

[sgl66]

Car looks legit from what I can see in pictures

[jwc66k]

That is not there on the pre-Feb/March '65 K codes... cars with Arvinode and transverse do not have that style rear frame rail setup.

OK, here's the numbers. The original discussion was for GT Mustangs, and to be politically correct, I should have included a disclaimer about the implementation dates.
I don't know where or from who I got these exhaust photos so I'll give a belated thanks.

This is a glaring error in the K code book.

The book "The 289 High Performance Mustang" was first published in 1994, with updated printings in 1996, 2002 and 2006 (the 4th edition). The Arvinode exhaust system was not well known until recently. It is now. You go with the best you have at the time. That approach also gives critics something to do (I consider myself one).
Jim

[Turnall]

This photo is interesting to me because of the "putty" sticking out from under the fender.  I noticed some of the same putty when I took my passenger fender off but had concluded it was something a previous owner had done.  Now I'm not so sure as that looks very much like it.

Allen

[drummingrocks]

Hey Allen, the example I pictured might be a little overdone, but yes, these cars had sealant between the tops of the fenders and the fender aprons when they were new.

[jwc66k]

This photo is interesting to me because of the "putty" sticking out from under the fender.  I noticed some of the same putty when I took my passenger fender off but had concluded it was something a previous owner had done.  Now I'm not so sure as that looks very much like it.

The application of calking is documented in the Mustang Assembly Manuals. You should consider getting a set for your year car.
Jim

[66RavenGTCoupeAgain]

There are lots of examples of buck tags with no punch outs.  Either is fine.

I think I have found a bit of a pattern with the punch outs on 65 and 66 cars. I currently have 17 1966 buck tags on file including my own and 8 of these are unpunched. The unpunched ones span from a buck date of Nov 4 65 (L4) to Feb 4 66 (B4). I do not have any tags at all between these dates that have punches.
I have earlier Sept 8 65 tag and three Oct 28 65 (K28) tags (*K28 tags have three punches each and are all located in the same areas on the tag and are exactly the same set of punched shapes) that are punched and a later one dated Feb 9 66 (B9) that is also punched but with a whole new set of 3 punched shapes. All of my other earlier and later tags are all punched showing that there was a period of no punching between late Oct / early Nov 65 to Early Feb 66.

I also have a June 12 64 tag (F12) that is punched and then 3 tags F15, F23 & F30 that are not punched. I unfortunately do not have any later 64 tags that are later than F30 but there seems to be a pattern forming here too.
Can anyone chime in here with more info or tags so I can continue to compile my file? I am also looking for patterns in C/O numbers and punch shapes and will set up a chart once I have 50+ tags and will post up here so please send them in guys!

Daniel.

[J_Speegle]

,,,,,,,,, Can anyone chime in here with more info or tags so I can continue to compile my file? I am also looking for patterns in C/O numbers and punch shapes and will set up a chart once I have 50+ tags and will post up here so please send them in guys!

Daniel.

Are you focusing in on NJ only with this specific request? Hope so since practices and details from all of the plants will surely spoil the results.

Either way I'll separate your post above (once I get an answer from you) and start a new thread since your request differs from the initial post and that discussion.

Think I have the results of the Buck Tag Chain Letter that was assembled and distributed way before this site was opened - just need to find that file as it would add some additional info though we did not collect punch out details with that effort.

Know Pete Morgan collected buck tag info and pictures for a long time as well as others. Allot of it became moot once Kevin Marti's book was published

[CharlesTurner]

Pete has a ton of buck tag info.  Not sure if he documented the punch-outs though?  I remember everything in a spread sheet or word doc.

We both have lots of pics of buck tags too.  Sorting them all out, at least for me, would be a job, lol.