Topic: Smog 1966 - 6 Cylinder

[Josep]

Hi guys,

I'm trying to find a SMOG system for my I6 200 California car. I maybe have the chance to get one from a V8 car, but need to know if I can use some parts of the V8 in my 200.
First 2 pics show these parts I can maybe use, (with some mods/straight.?).
The last pic shows parts that NPD sells.

Please, is there a chance to use any of these parts in my car..?

Thanks,

Josep

[MattDoscher]

Take a look in the Free/Trade section.  Richard Urch has one listed from a '67 200.  Looks like you reached out to him before in that section.  Maybe the system he has will help?

Matt

[J_Speegle]

Very few parts will be usable on your 6 cylinder and some of them will require additional parts to make them work.

Looks like the pump (with some additional parts but can't see the back side in the picture) a few clamps and the filter can could possibly be repurposed.

Guess you have already looked at the original unrestored San Jose pictures of the 66 T code with Thermactor on the site

You have hoses, brackets, valve, scoop for the pump, the manifolds (or trees) and a few nuts and bolts to still locate Sure I missed something from the quick list

Hopefully you already have the air cleaner (for the motor) and the breather for a Thermactor since those are different also

[Josep]

Take a look in the Free/Trade section.  Richard Urch has one listed from a '67 200.  Looks like you reached out to him before in that section.  Maybe the system he has will help?

Matt

Hi Matt, you're right about Richard Urch, but unfortunately he sold the system very fast.! I wasn't  sure if it was suitable for my car, I was slow there and maybe I had to buy it from him, but now is gone and I have to look for other options.

Josep

[Josep]

Very few parts will be usable on your 6 cylinder and some of them will require additional parts to make them work.
yes Jeff, I know maybe some parts can work in my car. Guessing for the air pump, air canister and maybe backfire valve, but just guessing

Looks like the pump (with some additional parts but can't see the back side in the picture) a few clamps and the filter can could possibly be repurposed.
of course If I would go for that system I would need the fittings to join all, hoses, brackets, etc..but maybe easier to find that all the stuff.

Guess you have already looked at the original unrestored San Jose pictures of the 66 T code with Thermactor on the site
I sure did Jeff.! But I'm missing more detailed pics from different angles of the Thermactor. I will re-check the article closely anyway

You have hoses, brackets, valve, scoop for the pump, the manifolds (or trees) and a few nuts and bolts to still locate Sure I missed something from the quick list
NPD sells the manifold assy exhaust air supply that will fit my car

Hopefully you already have the air cleaner (for the motor) and the breather for a Thermactor since those are different also
Do you mean I can also use the air cleaner (black canister.?) also.? Or that I can't use it since they are different.?

Oh! I see... yes Jeff, but these parts are easy to find

Josep

[J_Speegle]

Very few parts will be usable on your 6 cylinder and some of them will require additional parts to make them work.
yes Jeff, I know maybe some parts can work in my car. Guessing for the air pump, air canister and maybe backfire valve, but just guessing

Backfire valve doesn't need the hook up to the V8 air cleaner on the rear of the base section. Believe you'll need the two port style. Some will work - just don't want you spending a bunch of money for things you can't use

You have hoses, brackets, valve, scoop for the pump, the manifolds (or trees) and a few nuts and bolts to still locate Sure I missed something from the quick list
NPD sells the manifold assy exhaust air supply that will fit my car

Should fit - not sure how close the look is to the original

Hopefully you already have the air cleaner (for the motor) and the breather for a Thermactor since those are different also
Do you mean I can also use the air cleaner (black canister.?) also.? Or that I can't use it since they are different.?

No was referring to the air cleaner on your engine (the larger blue painted thing

Wish I hadn't thrown so many of the 6 cylinder parts out   

[Josep]

Backfire valve doesn't need the hook up to the V8 air cleaner on the rear of the base section. Believe you'll need the two port style. Some will work - just don't want you spending a bunch of money for things you can't use
OK Jeff, thanks. Think the valve is 3 ports(?) Maybe one port can be blocked..

Should fit - not sure how close the look is to the original
See first post, last pic. Think it's acceptable, but you'll know better than me

No was referring to the air cleaner on your engine (the larger blue painted thing
Yes, I realized later what you were meaning

Wish I hadn't thrown so many of the 6 cylinder parts out   
Yes, that's a pitty, but who could know..!

Josep

[Anghelrestorations]

I think I have an original system with all the original pieces and hoses.  Im not home till end of the weekend but can check for you.  Just send me an email or PM to remind me.

[Josep]

PM sent Marcus. Thanks.!

Josep

[Josep]

So, for my knowledge, how many holes has the anti backfire valve in a V8 and I6..?
From the schematic on the 1966 Shop Manual, they're the same valve, two outlets, one going to the air pump and the other one to the intake manifold or carb spacer. And from the same schematic, the air supply pump and air pump cleaner, also common to both models, same as the check valve (V8 has 2 and I6 obviously 1).
Brackets, hoses and some more items will be different.
And this gives me another question, were does the hose going from the air cleaner breather located in the lid.?
I've been told that this is not necessary in V8s, but if they share the same main parts, pump, filter and valve..were does it goes in a I6..? Saw pics with a hose attached going to...(?)
I thought it went to the backfire valve, but if it only has 2 outlets..?

Thanks for putting me in the right way,

Josep

[J_Speegle]

So, for my knowledge, how many holes has the anti backfire valve in a V8 and I6..?
From the schematic on the 1966 Shop Manual,

What you have in the picture is a generic setup not specific to either a V8 or 6 cylinder so be careful at following/copying all the details

they're the same valve, two outlets, one going to the air pump and the other one to the intake manifold or carb spacer. And from the same schematic, the air supply pump and air pump cleaner, also common to both models, same as the check valve (V8 has 2 and I6 obviously 1).

- There are two types of backfire valves used - a 2 port and a 3 port. depended on the application. Your 6 cylinder used the 2 port as shown in the earlier pictures in the other thread. http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=13702.msg84916#msg84916

- There were pumps with three and four hose nipples at the rear. It was not uncommon for the plant to use the four where the three could have been used - it was just another/extra output nipple. In the pictures earlier the pump showed that one of the ports had been capped from the factory and unused. So one hose to the valve, one large one to the pump filter, one to the manifold at the cylinder head and the last one capped off.

And this gives me another question, were does the hose going from the air cleaner breather located in the lid.?

Plastic or pot metal base with two screws or bolts attaching itself to the lid?  If so its a retrofit - later addition to the car.

If your asking about the the nipple (formed sheet metal) formed into the lid on Sprints or the snorkel on non-Sprints it is connected to the valve cover breather as shown in the other thread.

[Josep]

Alright Jeff, I see. Thought this could be maybe the general setup, so I saw common parts.

From the other thread pictures, they're not clear but looks to me like there were 3 hoses going out the backfire valve, 1 to pump, 2 to check valve (manifold Assyria) and 3 to intake manifold/carb spacer. Sure I'm wrong, but viewing the pics that could be.!

Yes, I'm referring to that nipple. But lids has tow of them, one in the snorkel and another one almost just opposite to it, in the cover. Pic nr. 8 shows the nipple with no hose connected.

Here are two pics from another V8 system that I have also locate, any difference from the pics I posted first.? Are they the same..? To me they are, but your expert eyes will judge. Thanks.

Josep

[J_Speegle]

Yes, I'm referring to that nipple. But lids has tow of them, one in the snorkel and another one almost just opposite to it, in the cover. Pic nr. 8 shows the nipple with no hose connected.

Just so that I'm clear on what you have currently - since we've not seen pictures of your engine and set up that I can recall. You have a painted non- Sprint air cleaner on your car. And from your signature a very late 66 production San Jose T code.

Will put aside some time tomorrow - I'll dig some books out and see if they can put us back on track or give us a list of all the appropriate parts you need. And Yes I do see what your describing as some of the applications using the three port rather than the two port for some of the others.  We have the single nipple and the two nipple air cleaner lids as well (though its not part of this discussion) the retrofitted extra nipple installed on some later in life.

Oh and don't think we'll find a connection to the intake or carb spacer. But should be clear when we take a close look at all of this stuff

[Josep]

Thanks Jeff,

Have sent you a PM.

Yes, correct.
Ah! OK, thought the retrofitted nipple was standard in smog 200 cars. So, only the one in the snorkel is the original.?
I deducted that a hose from the valve was going to the intake/carb spacer from the schematic I posted.

Here are some pics of my car. The snorkel has not the nipple but that's an easy find.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140238193@N04/shares/273754

What was connected to this valve (sorry I don't know the name) attached to the intake manifold.?
And were does this hose (yellow arrow) going..?

I also found this schematic and now I see the connections from the backfire valve, 1 goes to air filter, 1 to pump and one to Cyl head/manifold assy. Think I have it clear now.!

Josep

[J_Speegle]

Sorry for all the confusion. Bering the first year for for and the Thermactor system there was allot of things going on and a number of running changes in these systems. At this point it looks like there are possibly three different systems (slightly different from one another) used during the production year. All of this just adds to the pile of conflicting information if looked at in total and ignoring VINs and production periods

The drawing you found is what we typically find on 67 Fords with the 240 6 cylinder but it was also used for a short period on 200's as found on a handful of examples

You car being a very late car will at least narrow down the search and discussion but wanted to warn others reading this to take notice that it might not specifically relate to their car built during another time period

Ah! OK, thought the retrofitted nipple was standard in smog 200 cars. So, only the one in the snorkel is the original.?
I deducted that a hose from the valve was going to the intake/carb spacer from the schematic I posted.

Lets forget the retrofitted nipple. It's not factory and its just adding an extra component that is not needed in this conversation since it does not appear you have one


So it appears that we have two initial issues. First the routing of the large hoses (this will confirm which backfire vale you need)  and the air clear issues. Other things we can address after we get these behind us.

What was connected to this valve (sorry I don't know the name) attached to the intake manifold.?
And were does this hose (yellow arrow) going..?

The hose you marked in yellow, on that one style of system) goes to the nipple on the engine air cleaner lid. On the other style it routes to the Thermactor air cleaner



Looking at all the pictures of all the 6 cylinder Thermactor cars I think you have the wrong lid for your car.



Looked at your pictures  we can see that the air cleaner has no nipple on the snorkel and an open breather cap. This would not be consistent with what was required by the state (they required a "closed system"_) and would require a breather cap with nipple and one on the snorkel connected with a hose