Topic: 65-67 group 22 Autolite Battery Discussion

[Bob Gaines]

Well, I got my 1966 out of storage Saturday. My Repo Autolite battery had been on the tender all winter, but wouldn't start the car. I got a jump and got the car home. Now I need to decide what to do. I have been looking at cutting the case and replacing the battery inside with a new one. The only thing that bothers me is the Repo is not correct either. I was thinking that what the owners of the older cars need is a correct case that we can stuff with a modern battery as required. Has anyone looked into getting this done? If not does anyone have an original that they would be willing to sell to try and get this done? Just some thoughts.

Thanks,
Rick

Rick, you are not the first person to ask and not the last. I don't know how many times this subject has come up in a thread .It has been a lot. You can do a search .The short answer is it a expensive proposition to tool up to make the correct ones. In most cases it would be a smaller 22 style that has never been offered.That is explained in previous posts also. Antique battery is about the only game in town .They are curently out of product and did a terrible job letting customers know about the situation by takeing the phone off the hook. No one knew if they were out of business or what. Sadly I for one have lost trust and will not let them use a original battery I have for development use for that bad customer relations reason. I don't want to lose my original battery. Could I expect any better treatment then what they gave their customers AND dealers recently ? I don't think so.   

[rcombs]

Thanks Bob,

I had seen many older posts, but nothing lately. Just wanted to check. I understand you reluctance to let the battery out of your site. I'm getting ready to retire this summer, maybe I will look into what it will take to get empty cases made. I was thinking of a 24 case with the proper detail between the posts. I know the 22 was standard but I could use the rest of the 24 case that I have. Plus the 24 case will have more room, therefore more battery options. Any input from you or others would be welcome.

Rick

[Bob Gaines]

Thanks Bob,

I had seen many older posts, but nothing lately. Just wanted to check. I understand you reluctance to let the battery out of your site. I'm getting ready to retire this summer, maybe I will look into what it will take to get empty cases made. I was thinking of a 24 case with the proper detail between the posts. I know the 22 was standard but I could use the rest of the 24 case that I have. Plus the 24 case will have more room, therefore more battery options. Any input from you or others would be welcome.

Rick

People have been cutting the bottom out and removing the guts  for re use of the batteries for years . Of course it will still be a 68-70 battery style.I have heard countless people discuss the possibility of a building a correct empty case to use but no results. The cost of the making the case is the stumbling block.Try 100K investment.  3D printing is a alternative on a small quantity basis and would be less cost. 

[J_Speegle]

Thanks Bob,

I had seen many older posts, but nothing lately. Just wanted to check. I understand you reluctance to let the battery out of your site. I'm getting ready to retire this summer, maybe I will look into what it will take to get empty cases made. I was thinking of a 24 case with the proper detail between the posts. I know the 22 was standard but I could use the rest of the 24 case that I have. Plus the 24 case will have more room, therefore more battery options. Any input from you or others would be welcome.

Rick

Of course doing the Grp 24 would leave a fair number of the restored cars (often some the more expensive ones)  still without a battery to use.

Like many times with reproductions one product does not fit all.  That's why the mass part reproducers look first to the number of cars that can use a particular piece and leave the other parts to the smaller reproducers and the more "home grown" or "cottage" part of the hobby business.

And as always doing something 90% correct only invites and leaves the door open for someone to make a more correct part leaving the first holding the bag and inventory after much investment

[Bob Gaines]

The group 22 was assemblyline in I'm guessing 80% of the SB Mustangs 65-67. One of the problems with a correct group 22 battery empty case is finding a battery to fit inside with enough CCA to start the engine reliably. That smaller size limits you to some garden tractor or motorcycle batteries which are on the least usable end of the spectrum. Those are good enough to start a well tuned car on the show field but I would hate to trust one on a hot or cold day when on a long cruise away from home. I have never seen a group 22 service replacement battery for that 65-67 period just the 68 and later ones. I am not sure if even there was a group 22 size service replacement. This is probably the reason that when the original battery failed in a car the group 24 battery was the defacto replacement back in the day.   

[ruppstang]

May be we should pool our money here to produce a F22 and F24 cases. I for one do not care if it starts the car I use a auto parts store battery for that. I would love to have a F22 case to show the car with.

[carlite65]

count me in. been a peeve of mine for years.

[rcombs]

There are some small high tech batteries that might fit in a 22 case that would start the car, but they are expensive.Then you would have another $150-$200 in the Autolite case. Sounds like the 22 size is the one.

[rcombs]

Were 22 size used on the hipo and shelby cars?

[Bob Gaines]

Were 22 size used on the hipo and shelby cars?

Yes ,in 65 66 and 67. It was the base battery in those years .

[Bob Gaines]

There are some small high tech batteries that might fit in a 22 case that would start the car, but they are expensive.Then you would have another $150-$200 in the Autolite case. Sounds like the 22 size is the one.

You are just a little out of touch . You should research this subject more to get a better idea. If it was that inexpensive it would have already been done. For a comparison dead originals trade hands for 2500-4500.00 if you can even find one for sale . That is a incentive for a reproduction but the tooling costs are high.

[Bossbill]

There are some small high tech batteries that might fit in a 22 case that would start the car, but they are expensive.Then you would have another $150-$200 in the Autolite case. Sounds like the 22 size is the one.

I just posted to the SAAC site a comment about AGM (small) batteries.
Group 22 batteries are around 250CCA and Group 24 are around 350CCA.

Deka AGM batteries sells a house brand called Big Crank.
https://www.batterymart.com/c-big-crank-batteries.html

Their 400 CCA battery appears to fit into a group 24 case with room to spare (external F24 is about 10x7x9H). And it lists for just over $100. Their 340CCA sells for under that.

I run Big Crank in my race car and the last one I had ran for 5 years until I left my transponder on for 3 months.

[rcombs]

Bob,

I am sure you are right about the original case. I was speaking of the retail of our theoretical repo 22 case.

[Bob Gaines]

Bob,

I am sure you are right about the original case. I was speaking of the retail of our theoretical repo 22 case.

I know you were talking about a retail price. My comments were in regard to those. If it could be done for 150.00- 250.00 on a limited basis it would already be done. There is demand but I don’t think you are familiar with what it will take to make it. To be that cheap a large investment would have to be divided by many hundreds of units. Just my opinion based on research that others had done on this subject over the last few years.

[67gtasanjose]

May be we should pool our money here to produce a F22 and F24 cases. I for one do not care if it starts the car I use a auto parts store battery for that. I would love to have a F22 case to show the car with.

This has been my battle cry for years now but as stated, cost and 'the ends justifying the means' seems to to be the reasoning (really odd with millions of old 65-67 Mustangs out there)
 
FWIW, I just noticed NPD is now carrying a yellow cap topper for the 24F battery. (Better, right)
(BTW, my OCD has been digging me everytime somebody calls these batteries a "F24" ~geese!)
https://www.npdlink.com/store/products/cover_sta_ful_battery_yellow_cap_and-208031-1.html

At this time, using a battery heat shield with a topper seems to be closest available  option to an "at a glance" correct look of what the hobby is seeking.

Perhaps a vendor's supplier company could take this "Topper" and the topper for the 68-up version that has been around for years now, and design a lower half of the case with an open top that in conjunction with the topper (with functioning posts), a smaller side-post battery could be used inside . It seems that a percentage of the mold work has now already been done.