Topic: 65-67 group 22 Autolite Battery Discussion

[carlite65]

IMHO we should have been doing this for consistency for a while now. Hope we can get support from the early judges and get the ball rolling 

you have my support. i tried to bring this topic up at the last judges meeting & it again fell on deaf ears. the h/j's are not paying attention imo. i was told that there would be noo deductions until a correct part was available. this is my biggest pet peeve right now.

[carlite65]

And if they do, I hope it'll be good old school fluid acid batteries. Not that gel stuff.

i disagree. a a gel battery in a proper case would be the absolute best option.

[Bob Gaines]

i disagree. a a gel battery in a proper case would be the absolute best option.

The gel battery certainly has eliminated the boiling over damage problem on hoods and engine compartments that the old style liquid acid batteries had.

[67gtasanjose]

i was told that there would be noo deductions until a correct part was available.

ah-ha! a real Mexican Stand-Off! (sorry amigos, no disrespect intended)So the Judges won't do anything till the part is available & Manufactures won't do anything till the Judges start deducting points. Maybe taking something like a poll of all owners of cars that require these batteries & seeing if the market is available, would help out.
I re-opened this "can of worms" last week because I, for one, would rather use a reproduction yellow-top 22F, (maybe even a red-topped 22F) to not HAVE to switch over to "what is available today"...(red-top 24F) this to make it have the correct original look. (which we know that the 24F re-pro's are really just a copy of 68-up 24F) Obviously, I am not alone. We see 22F battery trays for sale all the time and a ready supply 24F repop trays for sale. (speculating, but probably many of these sales because of the re-pop 22F's unavailability) My original tray is in remarkably good shape. I wish to keep it in place. Interstate Battery sells a 22F that goes in and out without any fight, (though it looks like any modern battery does) AND a 24F is a very tight fit with my Thermactor 289 engine. We simply NEED this. Why is it you can buy a "dated" 22F DELCO re-pop for a CORVAIR, but you cannot find a (non-dated) 22F Sta-Ful for a Mustang?...Are there really more Corvairs out there than Mustangs? Makes little sense to me. If I had the financial backing & knew the battery world...I'd get this rolling immediately.

[Toploader]

i disagree. a a gel battery in a proper case would be the absolute best option.

IMO a gel battery doesn't belong in a 60's car. And what's the point of asking for an exact reproduction, when it is everything but. And where goes the satisfaction of a well maintained battery. I believe boiling over would typically be a result of overfilling, a faulty charging system, blocked vents - improper maintenance.

[Bob Gaines]

IMO a gel battery doesn't belong in a 60's car.  And what's the point of asking for an exact reproduction, when it is everything but. And where goes the satisfaction of a well maintained battery. I believe boiling over would typically be a result of overfilling, a faulty charging system, blocked vents - improper maintenance.

As if we have any control over when a regulator decides to go bad causing a battery to boil? Typically no warning signs leading up to when a regulator decides to go bad especially one of the repros  .

[Bob Gaines]

ah-ha! a real Mexican Stand-Off! (sorry amigos, no disrespect intended)So the Judges won't do anything till the part is available & Manufactures won't do anything till the Judges start deducting points. Maybe taking something like a poll of all owners of cars that require these batteries & seeing if the market is available, would help out.
I re-opened this "can of worms" last week because I, for one, would rather use a reproduction yellow-top 22F, (maybe even a red-topped 22F) to not HAVE to switch over to "what is available today"...(red-top 24F) this to make it have the correct original look. (which we know that the 24F re-pro's are really just a copy of 68-up 24F) Obviously, I am not alone. We see 22F battery trays for sale all the time and a ready supply 24F repop trays for sale. (speculating, but probably many of these sales because of the re-pop 22F's unavailability) My original tray is in remarkably good shape. I wish to keep it in place. Interstate Battery sells a 22F that goes in and out without any fight, (though it looks like any modern battery does) AND a 24F is a very tight fit with my Thermactor 289 engine. We simply NEED this. Why is it you can buy a "dated" 22F DELCO re-pop for a CORVAIR, but you cannot find a (non-dated) 22F Sta-Ful for a Mustang?...Are there really more Corvairs out there than Mustangs? Makes little sense to me. If I had the financial backing & knew the battery world...I'd get this rolling immediately.

You mis spoke.  Who do you think is campaigning for the correct batteries  ? . It is not largely the concours participant base.  The main champions of this issue have been concours judges that have brought up the facts about the battery issue.  The powers to be at MCA are the ones that think that the back lash of mad owners out weighs the benefit of a more appropriate part. They are the ones that make the changes . SAAC and Mid America Shelby venues have already adopted a point deduction for incorrect battery.

[67gtasanjose]

You mis spoke.

Bob, I'm sorry I misunderstood what was written by others. So the real problem isn't in the judges, it is more at the MCA level? I'm certainly not trying to get anybody upset, I also didn't realize people (restorers) who spend countless hours and countless dollars to bring their cars to a level of excellence, would get upset that MCA might have a rule change to help bring their car up to a higher standard of authenticity. I am a Newbie here, so the last thing I wish to do is step on anybody's toes. I only wished to help bring about more discussion on a need to have the correct battery available to purchase. If owners are willing to Pony up $250 fee/show to cover the cost of having a lift at Nationals for authenticity, then I cannot see that they would be too upset in getting a correct (around $250) battery that actually starts the car, thus adding points. Maybe I am just naive in what I think. Again, I hope you accept my apologies. 

[tim_morrison82]

the judging doesnt apply to me being a non us owner, but if there is no point loss for incorrect battery, do you get a bonus point for having an original?

[carlite65]

no bonus points for correct one.

[Toploader]

As if we have any control over when a regulator decides to go bad causing a battery to boil? Typically no warning signs leading up to when a regulator decides to go bad especially one of the repros  .

I'm not sure if I am fully convinced.

From the 1965 Mustang Shop Manual (p. 13-1 Diagnosis and Testing):

Indications of a high charging rate are:
1. Lights and fuses burn out repeatedly.
2. Battery requires too frequent refilling.
3. The ignition contacts have a short life.

Another excerpt from the Internet:

•Too much voltage
A voltage regulator is designed to limit the voltage output of an alternator to 14.5 volts or less to protect the vehicle's electrical system.  If the regulator malfunctions and allows uncontrolled voltage to be released, you will see bulbs and other electrical components begin to fail.  This is a dangerous and potentially costly problem.  Fortunately, this type of failure is very rare.  Most failures cause a reduction of voltage or amperage.

And yet another one:

Burnt Bulbs
An overcharging alternator can lead to headlights and tail lights prematurely blowing out alone or in tandem. Other burnout symptoms of an overcharging alternator are repeated blown fuses, dash and interior lights blowing out and lights becoming extremely bright when engine speed increases.

So, you're suggesting that boiling over will take place before any of these indications?

[mgmradio]

Yes Toploader, but overcharging is only one part of the equation. Overfilling is a major contributor to boil over . Also continuing to charge an already fully charged battery ( applying to many Amps ) . If you have ever charged a battery with an older charger you will know what I mean.

[zray]

IMO a gel battery doesn't belong in a 60's car. And what's the point of asking for an exact reproduction, when it is everything but. And where goes the satisfaction of a well maintained battery. I believe boiling over would typically be a result of overfilling, a faulty charging system, blocked vents - improper maintenance.

First on my list of what doesn't belong on a '60's era car would be something like a 5 speed transmission conversion, as you totally lose the '60's feel without a 4 speed transmission. But a gel battery inside a decent Autolite repro case is pretty stealthy, by my lax standards anyway….

Z.

[ruppstang]

I am considering making a note in judge sheet battery section that their reproduction battery is incorrect with out any deduction. That way at least the owners are aware of it and are not surprised if latter it becomes a deduction. May be then they will start asking vendors for the early 22F and 24F.

[CharlesTurner]

I am considering making a note in judge sheet battery section that their reproduction battery is incorrect with out any deduction. That way at least the owners are aware of it and are not surprised if latter it becomes a deduction. May be then they will start asking vendors for the early 22F and 24F.

Think you would want that to be included in other areas also and probably should be approved...