Author Topic: 65-67 group 22 Autolite Battery Discussion  (Read 22864 times)

Offline C5ZZKGT

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65-67 group 22 Autolite Battery Discussion
« on: December 25, 2010, 10:20:19 AM »
Do we know really why the reproduction (Antique Battery) folks DON'T make the 22F then? it seems SO simple.......do they need an original to work from? I've never knowingly seen a 22F-I've seen the common 24F and the 27F but no 22Fs.......


NOTE:  This thread is a result of splitting of an earlier WANTED request
« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 04:36:47 PM by carlite65 »

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2010, 01:38:51 AM »
Do we know really why the reproduction (Antique Battery) folks DON'T make the 22F then? it seems SO simple.......do they need an original to work from? I've never knowingly seen a 22F-I've seen the common 24F and the 27F but no 22Fs.......
From what I understand they are a small family operation. The tooling for the 22F case is the issue. It will require expensive tooling . At least several people I am aware of  have contacted them in the past but they are unwilling to invest in more tooling. Their past comment (that have been relaid to me by the interested parties) is that they don't think there is a market. Quite frankly I don't think they are aware of the history and how many were actually used. It is like most things in the aftermarket community in that they will not be motivated to do anything until we start deducting points in concours for lack of use ,educate the enthusiasts on what is correct ,and people start complaining to them for not having it . Also there was one type that was used from 65-67 assemblyline and another type that was used on the assemblyline from 68-70 . The current 24F repro is copied after what would have been on the assemblyline starting in late 67 or 68 production to 1970. To do it right they should do it two ways.   For that matter they should make the correct looking 65-67 24F battery which they don't. Here is a picture of a 22F battery in a car. It is hard to distinguish the shorter 22F length from the picture but you can see the difference in the 65-67 top I was speaking of. Now you can see it isn't as simple as you might think.Bob
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2010, 01:57:33 AM »
Some assemblyline batteries came with yellow caps and some red caps. I have only seen the yellow and red cap batteries used on the assemblyline. The old Sun Machine service cards indicated identifying a Mustangs battery by the cap color too.  I have seen green and gold on service batteries.   The caps were identification that seemed to indicated the battery capacity or longevity. The particular capacity for a given application was determined by options and or the charging system.The yellow cap battery was typically used on a base car. I think the yellow cap base battery was only meant to last just barely through the warranty period and was apparently cheaper for ford to install IMHO. I have never seen a service yellow cap battery so I am not sure if it was even serviced . I have always speculated that you had to upgrade to the higher capacity red cap battery when you replaced the original one. Bob
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline carlite65

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2010, 03:57:07 PM »
i wonder just how much $$$ the tooling would cost?? i'd be willing to chip in a few bucks to get the ball rolling. i would almost be willing to setle for a dummy case just for show purposes. that should cut the costs back some.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 03:59:19 PM by carlite65 »
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Offline C5ZZKGT

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2010, 06:23:57 PM »
Do we think the antique battery folks are actually making the batteries themselves? or having a big manufacturer make them such as Johnson Controls?

Offline CharlesTurner

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2010, 09:30:23 PM »
They had a display setup at Charlotte Autofair a year or 2 ago and I talked to the owner.  Explained the difference in what they reproduce with actual factory batteries and even sent them an e-mail with pictures of the correct 65-67 style.  Never got a response, so I suppose they just aren't interested investing in such a thing.  To add to the problem, the "Autolite" name is owned by Honeywell and from what I understand, have little interest in antique reproduction parts.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline 67gta289

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 08:08:55 AM »
For those history buffs out there, a short but interesting read can be found here: http://www.fostoria.org/history/autolite/autolite1.html   John
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
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MCA 74660

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2010, 05:52:33 PM »
Do we think the antique battery folks are actually making the batteries themselves? or having a big manufacturer make them such as Johnson Controls?
I have been told by interesed parties that the cases are made south of the border. They may be finished assembled in the states,but I don't know.Bob
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2010, 05:58:35 PM »
i wonder just how much $$$ the tooling would cost?? i'd be willing to chip in a few bucks to get the ball rolling. i would almost be willing to setle for a dummy case just for show purposes. that should cut the costs back some.
Some of the repro 24F's batteries come as a basically "dummy" case with a optima battery inside. It was explained to me by some interested parties that the tooling cost was in the many 10's of thousands of dollars.   May we put you down for a "Grand" or two? ;D
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline buckeyeresto

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2010, 08:03:42 PM »
Battery's are made in Hudson ohio in a little farm barn not bigger then 1500sf  and is a family business also new castle battery or axiom or what ever their name is now is a small place too  their both +or- 30 miles from me when I talked to them in the past about recreating a 24series tar top they needed and original case I supplied and and then we got the tooling cost which were expensive and that was that :'(

Offline roddster

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2011, 03:56:09 PM »
Well, as a lot of repop parts, there are good ones, and then there are the ones they make.
The 22F battery I use right now is a later 68/69 original case one.  To me, this is at least closer to what came in my car (early 1967 GT 350), yet, the only acceptable battery is the red capped group 27 battery which also requires you to replace the battery tray.  I supposed this is because that is what the rules say (MCA).
  And, if you look on Ebay, there are plenty of battery tops, incorrect and still only later (68 on up) red capper Autolite group 27 the the rules specifically state points off.  You'd think somebody would try to even make a group 22 battery top, but, not just yet.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2011, 10:35:11 PM »
Well, as a lot of repop parts, there are good ones, and then there are the ones they make.
The 22F battery I use right now is a later 68/69 original case one.  To me, this is at least closer to what came in my car (early 1967 GT 350), yet, the only acceptable battery is the red capped group 27 battery which also requires you to replace the battery tray.  I supposed this is because that is what the rules say (MCA).


Getting a bit off thread but you can use the repo grp 24 and the typical repo or even service replacement trays work with that fine. Also closer to the original one for your car than the Grp 27 IMHO
Jeff Speegle

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Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2014, 08:04:21 AM »
My understanding is that there is NO 22F Battery available, even in 2014, over 3 years after this post began. Correct me if I am wrong, but my question is : Is there even enough room for a 24F battery on California cars with a 289 SMOG engine?  The smog pump filter canister interferes, doesn't it? DELCO reproductions are available (with yellow "DELCO" tops) in a 22F and it seems like to anyone owning a car that originally came with a 22F that these should be an easy adapt-to-fit for any manufacturer. Most of us would be willing to go the +$250 to buy a repop original looking AUTOLITE gel-cel, so let's see if we can re-open this can of worms  ;D Does anybody even own an early (up to 67) production 22f or a service replacement 22f?
Richard Urch

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2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline zray

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2014, 09:42:39 AM »
'…………...so let's see if we can re-open this can of worms  "

ugh.  let the can stay closed.

Z
Looking for '65-'68 manual V-8 coupe
that doesn't need a new body

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65-67 group 22 Auolite Battery Discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2014, 12:56:24 PM »
My understanding is that there is NO 22F Battery available, even in 2014, over 3 years after this post began. Correct me if I am wrong, but my question is : Is there even enough room for a 24F battery on California cars with a 289 SMOG engine?  The smog pump filter canister interferes, doesn't it? DELCO reproductions are available (with yellow "DELCO" tops) in a 22F and it seems like to anyone owning a car that originally came with a 22F that these should be an easy adapt-to-fit for any manufacturer. Most of us would be willing to go the +$250 to buy a repop original looking AUTOLITE gel-cel, so let's see if we can re-open this can of worms  ;D Does anybody even own an early (up to 67) production 22f or a service replacement 22f?
Yes, there are 22f out there but understandably very pricey because of the rarity. Only the most dedicated to authentity are willing to pay the thousands of dollars those batteries bring. Typically a private sale among collectors wanting them to go to the right car. Yes the 24 fits in all cases but is not assemblyline correct in all cases. A Delco Battery in a Ford product does not make any sense to me. It is more wrong? then a repro 24F.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby