Topic: Kevin Marti's Tagbook

[bryancobb]

Just thinking outside the box here...
Is there any evidence that once a buck tag was screwed on, it stayed there?
More specifically, did the buck tag start out with just a few characters stamped, then screwed to the car, to be removed, more characters stamped at other spots on the line, and then screwed back on?
If the ENTIRE buck tag was stamped and it was totally complete before being installed, that would show one purpose.
If the buck tag was progressively completed along the line as the car was built, being removed/stamped/replaced several times, that would show another purpose.
If the progressive process was possible, the tag could be used while removed to "IMPRINT" a paper document for record keeping, like an old-time credit card imprinter.
I know some tags have different shaped holes punched through, like the "get your 10th movie rental free" card.  It would not make sense for these holes to be done in the beginning?
The tag would have to be off the car to be punched by an employee with their own unique punch?

Here's some "possible" phrases for the c/o symbol:  CARRY/OVER   C-GROUP OF/OPTIONS   any other ideas anyone?

[J_Speegle]

Is there any evidence that once a buck tag was screwed on, it stayed there?

"Evidence" Not sure what that would be either way - removing and reinstalling would risk stripping out the hole IMHO and we would then seen multiple moutning holes which we do not

More specifically, did the buck tag start out with just a few characters stamped, then screwed to the car, to be removed, more characters stamped at other spots on the line, and then screwed back on?

If you look at those punches they are often on corners or area where they could be punched while attached to the car IMHO as for the stamping they all line up orderly and I would suspect that if stamped at different times we would see some misalignment on some tags. In addition if they served the purpose that has been offered to us then they were their to guide the build process not take inventory of tsaks.

I know some tags have different shaped holes punched through, like the "get your 10th movie rental free" card.  It would not make sense for these holes to be done in the beginning?

From our understanding from workers they were not there at the start but liked other inspection processes on the line they were done after certain processes or steps were completed. The edge of the tag can be lifted slightly (they are often found bent slightly on their mounting screw or rotated for clearance

The tag would have to be off the car to be punched by an employee with their own unique punch?

Nope  - Not IMHO


Here's some "possible" phrases for the c/o symbol:  CARRY/OVER   C-GROUP OF/OPTIONS   any other ideas anyone?
[/quote]

Common thought at one point was Customer Order - identifying cars that had and order and money down (customer waiting) rather than a car built to fill a lot. Also consider that the codes on these tags did not always make sense (letters representing words) accordign to line managers as they reported just making up codes rather than being "all fancy and such"

[CharlesTurner]

The buck tag would have been installed very early on as original examples will show no paint on the bottom.  So, they were attached sometime around the unibody welding process.  The codes are there to help workers identify options that may require modification to the unibody.  As Jeff mentions, the inspector punch-outs would have been done as the car progressed down the line and might not have necessarily been tied to anything on the buck tag.  Might have just been a way for certain inspectors to mark a certain check.  On Dearborn cars, sometimes we see a thin metal tab hanging off the lip of the cowl in the engine bay.  Have observed these with the same type of inspector punch-out designs used on buck tags.

I agree with Jeff that I don't think the tags were removed anytime during the build process once installed.  They might have been spun around on the screw to make the inspector punches (if present) or just pulled up and done on the corners as mentioned.  We don't see many 65-66 that look like the corners were bent up, so they were probably just spun around.  Which would explain the orientation of the screw close to the edge of the inner fender panel.

I haven't looked into the D/'c/o' codes in a while, but just to make sure, they aren't tied to any particular body style are they?  A sampling of buck tags might help identify some trends.

[bryancobb]

Ok guys... this thread really got me thinking.
I am holding my buck-tag in my hand.  Here's some observations made by inspecting ONLY MY TAG, with a magnifying glass. 
*  ALL of the LETTERING was done at the same time because it is in perfect alignment
*  My tag has 3 geometric punches, an equilateral triangle, a shape that looks like a fox's snout and ears, and a shape like an indian
    tee-pee with smoke coming out the top and going to the right.  The triangle is 1/4 inch from the right side and in line with
    the VIN.  The tee-pee is 1/2 inch from the right side and in line with the 4th line of text.  The fox snout is 3/4 inch from the left and
    in line with the 4th line of text.  It looks like these punches were done by hand because they are slightly out of alignment and tilted in
    different directions. IMHO, thre's no way these could be punched with the tag screwed in place or rotated, with a durable
    punch device that was of heavy enough construction to be used for hundreds if not thousandes of times.  Again, IMHO, I think the tags
    were stamped out very early but not SCREWED to the car yet.  The tag could have been attached to the build sheet or hung on the car
    with a lanyard or similar.  Another thing that makes me think they were not punched after being screwed down is the fact that no-one
    has found a "chad" (remember hanging chads from the Bush/Gore election in Florida?) trapped under their buck tag on an original car. 
    I think there would have been found some by now.

Here's the only 100% factual information that we can put in the definite column:
1) The tags were stamped very early in production all characters at the same time.
2) They were screwed to the car SOMETIME before engine bay blackout paint was applied.
3) The face only, of the tag, and the hold-down screw got painted.


Here's some debatable information, even pure speculation:
1) The tags MAY have been screwed down just before engine bay paint.
2) If so, the "inspection" ?? punches would pertain only to things up to that point in assembly.
3) All the options and details stamped into the tag could NOT be deviated from once assembly started.
4) The geometric shape punches would have probably been a pretty heavy tool and maybe even air powered.
5) A person on each shift was probably THE buck-tag man who manually typed in the lettering to be stamped.  He would be
    reading a document that had been printed from the old computer.  This MAY have been the build sheet?
6) When a skid came along with buck car on it, a worker probably grabbed a buck tag, and attached it to the buck somehow.
7) Was part of the markal info, that is written on bare metal of the core-support copied from the buck tag?

Anyone care to add pieces to the puzzle in my sure and not-so-sure columns?