Topic: 67 Grille Area Hardware or Details, Nothing in Osborn Manuals?

[67gtasanjose]

I am working over my grille area right now and inventorying the hardware, parts & pieces AND another member is currently doing the same thing overseas. The other member (Jereon) has brought up an interesting aspect. The '67 Osborn Assembly Manual has nothing about the grille area noted!

Are we missing something? I know there are other occasions that something I was looking for, I simply missed it or instead of, say the BODY manual, it was in the ELECTRICAL manual.

Anyone out there have these details or can somebody point us in the right direction?

Areas needing engineering numbers and hardware finish codes include:
*Grille Support Braces (3) including attaching hardware to the radiator support & hood latch support
*Grille Wide Molding attaching screws & J clips to the 3 grille lower supports AND to the stone guard AND to the headlight housing extensions AND attaching hardware to the grille screen/mesh.
*Fog Light Braces, attaching screws & J clips
*Horse & Corral plus Fog Light (OR bars) attaching studs & nuts (note: center/top stud looks cut off? different than others)
*Hood Support to Radiator Support and attaching hardware (into the radiator support)
*Thin Grille Molding & attaching spring stud with nuts
*Stone Guard to Headlight Housing Extensions and/or Grille Braces with attaching hardware
*Headlight Housing Extension to Fender attaching studs & Nuts

Looks to us like these details are missing in these manuals. I have a whole lot of original parts & pieces I can document IMAGES of but it would also be nice to know restoration finish codes for these hardware pieces too. Several of my original molding attaching hardware pieces CAN be incorrect since they have been removed and/or replaced in previous repaints. I would not qualify these parts of my inventory as "original", another good reason to source original data.

[jwc66k]

That page is missing from the 67 Body Assembly Manual. Use the 68 as it is very close. The main difference is the Pony/Corral and the attaching hardware.
Jim
Sorry for the delay, the picture was on my other computer. The insert depicting the Pony/Corral in the upper Right Hand corner is from the MPC.

[67gtasanjose]

That page is missing from the 67 Body Assembly Manual. Use the 68 as it is very close. The main difference is the Pony/Corral and the attaching hardware.
Jim
Sorry for the delay, the picture was on my other computer. The insert depicting the Pony/Corral in the upper Right Hand corner is from the MPC.

Thanks Jim, this helps a great deal! (I wondered about what was in the '68 OAM)

If you could possibly post a legend for reference of engineering numbers that are the same as a 67 too (probably not much need for the '68 items within this thread), that would help complete the omission of this detail in the '67 Osborn Assembly Manual.

[jwc66k]

If you could possibly post a legend for reference of engineering numbers that are the same as a 67 too (probably not much need for the '68 items within this thread), that would help complete the omission of this detail in the '67 Osborn Assembly Manual.

I don't understand what you require. The item numbers in the page I added are the same as those listed in the 67 Body Assembly Manual, page 10 (N7-8105-3), with the exception of the ones for the Pony area.
Jim

[Fastback2013]

Thanks Richard for the detailed enumeration of all the different parts and Jim for helping us further with the drawing of the 68 manual.
Since I only have the 67 manuals, that page from the 68 is certainly very helpfull.
I will put everything together what I know and will certainly ask for further help and details for the items that I don't know.
Since that page for the grill and pony area is missing for 67, I would think that many people in the future would be glad for having that 
I'll keep you all posted,
have a nice weekend,
Jeroen

[WT8095]

Looks to us like these details are missing in these manuals.

That's the nature of these books. The originals, while called "manuals" by Ford, were really just three-ring binders filled with engineering drawings. Drawings were removed and replaced as newer revisions became available, and pages may have been simply removed or gotten lost. There weren't many copies to begin with, and I would venture that no two books ended up with the exact same combination of pages by the time the model year was over.

Additionally, there was a mixture of Xeroxed pages and old-fashioned chemical prints. The Xeroxes hold up OK, but the chemical prints can be badly faded, to the point where the image cannot be recovered. Add fifty years of wear and tear, and you've got a very low probability of having a "complete" book. That's what Osborn had to work with. I'm looking into reproducing the '68 engine manuals I've obtained. As I go through the process I'll share some photos of what originals look like. Here's a sneak peek:

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=13141
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=13177

[67gtasanjose]

I've let this one sit a few weeks now, hoping a '68 owner or somebody with a 68 Manual could help fill in the "blanks" of the images Jim shared earlier in the thread.

Though the pictures give good details of what the hardware LOOKS like, those pictures do not include a LEGEND with engineering information.
It would be nice to add a page to my 67 Osborn Body Manual with such information. I am working on these details at this time and wish to do an "INVENTORY" of my hardware, parts & pieces. It would help to know the hardware finish too, like what was originally phosphate/oil, zinc-dichromate or whatever else may have been used.

Fairly sure the majority of hardware will cross over the 67/68 division line (be the same for both 67 and 68). ...or as noted before, the largest differences being in the grille area with the obvious differences of 67 vs. 68 or GT vs. non-GT or for 68 models only, California Special, HCS etc... Most of us should be capable of sorting out those (rather obvious) differences easily enough (though more discussion could occur in another thread if needed)

Just poking the thread hoping to incite more interest in the finer details NOT noted in our 67 Assembly manuals that I know some of you have in your '68 books, manuals and so forth... 

[jwc66k]

Richard,
From one of my previous posts on this topic -

I don't understand what you require. The item numbers in the page I added are the same as those listed in the 67 Body Assembly Manual, page 10 (N7-8105-3), with the exception of the ones for the Pony area.

The items in the Pony area came from the MPC. What else do you want?
Jim

[67gtasanjose]

I don't understand what you require. The item numbers in the page I added are the same as those listed in the 67 Body Assembly Manual, page 10 (N7-8105-3), with the exception of the ones for the Pony area.
Jim

Richard,
From one of my previous posts on this topic - The items in the Pony area came from the MPC. What else do you want?
Jim

Missed this reply, I'll look again in the manual (later) and see if anything else is needed.

UPDATED: I hadn't seen this page without the images...should work great! Thanks Jim

[67gtasanjose]

Maybe this question relates to the using of a 68 illustration on a 67 car (since the page is missing)

ITEM "AF", center of the illustration, when matched with the Engineering sheet in the 67 Osborn, item "AF" translates into: 373265-S2 and when you put that number into AMK, it comes back as a '67 Grille Bar Nut".
(AMK basically saying this nut would be item "M" of jwc66k's '67 illustration in top left corner of the image shown earlier in the thread.)

Anyone following me on this detail, or did I loose you?

What I am looking at in "jwc66k's 68 illustration",  I would call the retainer, upper wide molding, retains wide molding to the headlight housing, 2 required.(1-each side) The lower two screws (item Q in the illustration) simply screw into the stone guard while the upper ones screw into a retainer. I need a picture of this retainer

Another detail I am trying to pin down...Regarding ITEMS "T" AND "S".
Item "S" on my example is different than the other two item S used on each side. My example had a larger diameter washer built into it than the other two item "S", these are the screws that attach the grille mesh to the wide grille molding. Is this unusual? The other screws on my example fall through item "T" so it makes sense the washer needs to be larger. Unfortunately, I have only ONE of these type screws in my inventory if it is what belongs there.

[Fastback2013]

Hello Richard,

I am following you 
As regarding your question for items 'S' and 'T'.
In attachment picture of my actual grille and stoneguard.
Are those the items your looking for?

Jeroen

[67gtasanjose]

Hello Richard,

I am following you 
As regarding your question for items 'S' and 'T'.
In attachment picture of my actual grille and stoneguard.
Are those the items your looking for?

Jeroen

Yes, that answers my 2nd question...That screw going through the grille mesh is like the ONE I have...but I need another 1.

Jereon, your image confims your example matches mine, the screw bolt that passes through the grille mesh, (top position) differs from the other attaching screws of the wide grille molding (at the rear position) but also your image suggests (or confirms) that this difference IS NOT DETAILED IN THE ILLUSTRATION EARLIER PROVIDED. The flanged (washer) area of this screw bolt is larger in diameter and as I already mentioned, I need just ONE of these screws.

AMK & later NOS Ford hardware provided with these wide moldings have all 3 (each grille side, or 6 in total for both wide moldings) as the same screw in every position and though this matches up with the illustration, it does not seem to reflect what was used in production (at least in San Jose at times).

THEN, I still need an answer to my first question about the screw clip (nut) that holds the top of the wide molding to the headlight housing...A picture would be great. Again, this detail seems to deviate from the ('68) illustration posted earlier when using AMK guide to ID it while also using the 1967 Osborn Body Assembly Manual hardware legend (with the 68 illustration)

[jwc66k]

ITEM "AF", center of the illustration, when matched with the Engineering sheet in the 67 Osborn, item "AF" translates into: 373265-S2 and when you put that number into AMK, it comes back as a '67 Grille Bar Nut".
(AMK basically saying this nut would be item "M" of jwc66k's '67 illustration in top left corner of the image shown earlier in the thread.)
Anyone following me on this detail, or did I loose you?

Yes, you lost me. Where (or how) did you "put that number into AMK"?
It's been a long time since I worked on this drawing (it's dated 11/24/2002, the 67 Mustang Fastback is still around though), so I don't have a car to refer to. In my 67 Body Manual, items M and AF are both circled (along with item AD) which is an indication that I determined something was not right. I compared the 68 Bill of Materials to the 67 B/M and in the 68 B/M, item M was removed, plus items Ad thru AH (68 B/M) are different or removed.
Jim
A hardware item has two sets of nomenclature, it's actual description (example - a screw) and it's function (example - grill retaining). Any screw might be used, several may fit the function.

[67gtasanjose]

Yes, you lost me. Where (or how) did you "put that number into AMK"?
It's been a long time since I worked on this drawing (it's dated 11/24/2002, the 67 Mustang Fastback is still around though), so I don't have a car to refer to. In my 67 Body Manual, items M and AF are both circled (along with item AD) which is an indication that I determined something was not right. I compared the 68 Bill of Materials to the 67 B/M and in the 68 B/M, item M was removed, plus items Ad thru AH (68 B/M) are different or removed.
Jim
A hardware item has two sets of nomenclature, it's actual description (example - a screw) and it's function (example - grill retaining). Any screw might be used, several may fit the function.

AF in the 67 "Bill of Materials", (instead of my occasional use of "Legend") calls this item in the illustration you provided as a "373265-S2" and an AMK catalog search calls it out as a Nut, Grille Bar, 67 Mustang, while the illustration has AF as a wide grille molding (nut or clip) retainer of sorts. I'm hopeing to find a couple either in my "bag of tricks" (aka spare parts) or in my bags of items I took off when I tore my car apart...either way, a close picture of this item is all I need at this point and if I determine I need a couple, I'll have a picture of what I need.

Clear as mud now?  

[jwc66k]

AF in the 67 "Bill of Materials", (instead of my occasional use of "Legend") calls this item in the illustration you provided as a "373265-S2" and an AMK catalog search calls it out as a Nut, Grille Bar, 67 Mustang,
Clear as mud now?

What AMK catalog are you using? I've got the 2005, 2010 and 2014 (their latest and current) AMK catalogs and that part number is not listed.
Again, the terminology you refer to is a "function", not a description. P/N 373265-S2 is a 10-24 stamped hex nut.
Jim