Topic: July 64 Dearborn body color overspray question to undercarriage

[JeffD]

MCA Rules state... Rear Wheel Housing: May be blacked out with sound deadener. Body color or black overspray
over sound deadener.
I have seen MCA gold cars with it both ways. How did you determine which way you would go? the last pace car i looked at, looked as if the rear wheel wells were nicely finished after sound deadener (see first pic) when looking at the wheel well this car was nicely done in body color and the second pic shows more of the same.

Front Fender: Topside may be blacked out with sound deadener or show signs of primer and
body color overspray. Splash guards, black with some sound deadener. Inner fenders, wheel-side,
could show blending of body color, primer or engine compartment color with deadener overspray.

for this i am concentrating on the outside of the engine compartment. i have not seen this much overspray going on
the next 3 pics represent this. i am sure this being a pace car, it likely got some special attention... but my car couldnt show any overspray like this when stripping. underneath the car was somewhat similar, but it ended with all of my sound deadener

finally - the sound deadener was liberally placed in the wheel well area all the way back to the frame rails - and pretty thick in that whole area. and then again, the same in the rear.. especially from the frame rails out.

thanks again for the help - it is truly appreciated

[J_Speegle]

MCA Rules state... Rear Wheel Housing: May be blacked out with sound deadener. Body color or black overspray
over sound deadener.
I have seen MCA gold cars with it both ways. How did you determine which way you would go?

You can do what was originally done or you can do what a club will accept. Considering that you asked the question here - do it as it was originally. Body color over sound deadener with over spray of both (more color overspray than sound deadener since it was lighter, finer, and lighter) beyond the wheel well itself

Same response for the front wheel wells. Understand that rules evolve slowly and the clubs (trying not to upset too many owners) will sometimes choose to accept a wide variety of finishes. But since that is not our focus our task is a little easier    IF you still want to stay on the MCA focus I can move the topic to that area and the groups can continue there with that focus

With that  - is your car been repainted or do the wheel wells still retain their original coatings and finishes?


Can I suggest that we focus on original cars and how they were done rather than how someone restored a car?  Believe your efforts and ultimate goal will be better served that way

[JeffD]

my car has been off the road since 1979. it was not driven again.

mind you i am trying to think back through 20 years of fog when i began taking the car apart, but i do not remember any white body color over spray in this area. i was able to clean off some sound deadener and see some white in the rear wheelwells, but up front not a speck. mind you i had a ton of sound deadener in the front (enough that the coil covers were pretty drenched and i had to chisel it away to get at the bolts)

but as of right now/today the front has been blasted and repainted so all signs are lost. i have seen cars that have a bit of the bod color flow into the area, but the pace car in the other pics had a lot more body color showing... maybe because of the white body color on the black compartment.

[JeffD]

i think - unfortunately - i am working towards a standard and not what i found on my car when it comes to this. the safe thing in my head would be to minimize the body color overspray - but that may not be correct... kinda like how many restored cars in the 80s and 90s.. semi flat everywhere and a touch of body overspray

[J_Speegle]

One of the typical charaticits I've seen of an early Dearborn car is the large amount (compared to the other two plants that covered it with black paint) of body color in the front wheel well covering the firewall/cowl section and forward towards the rear edge of the shock tower pocket. As in all years how far forward depended on the painter that day. Have seen a few examples where they went as far as the radiator support. Guess this might have been the fill-in or new guy - before some one senior told them that they were wasting $$$'s

Of course as you mentioned much of this can be covered with sound deadener later in the process.

You can see that area of the wheel well being painted (unfortunately B&W pictures) in a thread in the library - slide #15

Thread - Dearborn Assembly Line - 1964-1970


In slide #23 and 24 we see a wide range of possible paint and overspray applied at Dearborn in 64-5 Since these examples appear to be white the coverage area appears even greater than it would with most colors white overspray

In slide #23 we see and example where the overspray is covering maybe 30% - only part way to the rear edge of the shock tower rear edge

In slide #24 one car covering maybe 70%  of the front wheel well while another example of maybe 45%

It may have been one or both of these pictures that the restorers you saw used as a guide.

[JeffD]

i know we are learning more every day and the hobby as a whole is evolving (and for the better). The car pics i posted are from a car that Charles Turner was involved with and I didnt know if it was done like that because pace cars were treated differently than others. SO i have no doubts about how correct he did things - just didnt know if this was the norm.

[CharlesTurner]

I think Jeff D's pics are a little misleading of the actual finish in those areas.  I would concede that the rear wheel wells might have a bit too much paint coverage in the upper areas, but it shouldn't be something to concern ourselves as it is common to see quite a bit of exterior color over-spray on these cars.

Attached are some before pics of the front wheel well/aprons.  What I have observed on Dearborn cars is a liberal exterior color paint covering in this area, fading to the front.  Engine bay black applied at the front, just to cover where the exterior color didn't and then when the car was assembled, a lot of the exterior color covered over with sound deadener.  While the restored pic may look like white over black, it is actually the opposite, as it should be. 

[CharlesTurner]

One other thing to note... this car had dealer undercoating applied, so it is not clear where that started and the sound deadener ended...

[J_Speegle]

...............The car pics i posted are from a car that Charles Turner was involved with and I didnt know if it was done like that because pace cars were treated differently than others. SO i have no doubts about how correct he did things - just didnt know if this was the norm.

Knew at least some of those were from the car Charles did and would not expect that he guessed at anything. If he didn't have anything to start with (which he did - post above) he would have gone through the same thought process we're going through in the discussion

As far as the norm - got to look at as many unrestored examples (same plant and time)  that are available and draw the conclusion from that rather than a single example IMHO

[JeffD]

Knew at least some of those were from the car Charles did and would not expect that he guessed at anything. If he didn't have anything to start with (which he did - post above) he would have gone through the same thought process we're going through in the discussion

As far as the norm - got to look at as many unrestored examples (same plant and time)  that are available and draw the conclusion from that rather than a single example IMHO

unfortunately many of us dont have great examples of unrestored. and many of the cars ive seen - even though ive been around a while - i havent paid attention to those details.. "nice paint - great interior - clean car"... not "heres a unrestored car with a crappy body - look at the green and pink paint daubs on that piece over there - let me get 4 pics of that" and for those pics you have taken and shared i am appreciative.

i surely see where my car had paint like in the example in some areas. and i thought maybe it had been repainted or something in a previous life because when i got it , the car had been off the road for about 15 years.

[JeffD]

I think Jeff D's pics are a little misleading of the actual finish in those areas.  I would concede that the rear wheel wells might have a bit too much paint coverage in the upper areas, but it shouldn't be something to concern ourselves as it is common to see quite a bit of exterior color over-spray on these cars.

Attached are some before pics of the front wheel well/aprons.  What I have observed on Dearborn cars is a liberal exterior color paint covering in this area, fading to the front.  Engine bay black applied at the front, just to cover where the exterior color didn't and then when the car was assembled, a lot of the exterior color covered over with sound deadener.  While the restored pic may look like white over black, it is actually the opposite, as it should be.

thanks for these pics Charles - i have to dig up some other old pictures of mine as i think i saw similarities to what you are showing - but like i mentioned , i just assumed it was some paint touchup or something and not factory.

[J_Speegle]

unfortunately many of us dont have great examples of unrestored. and many of the cars ive seen - even though ive been around a while - i havent paid attention to those details.. "nice paint - great interior - clean car"... not "heres a unrestored car with a crappy body - look at the green and pink paint daubs on that piece over there ...............

No problem - that is why we set up this site - to provide access, support and discussion to those resources in an effort to make the car more like they were originally rather than just repeating what someone else had done


Glad we help figure helped

[jtfx6552]

I think Jeff D's pics are a little misleading of the actual finish in those areas.  I would concede that the rear wheel wells might have a bit too much paint coverage in the upper areas, but it shouldn't be something to concern ourselves as it is common to see quite a bit of exterior color over-spray on these cars.

Attached are some before pics of the front wheel well/aprons.  What I have observed on Dearborn cars is a liberal exterior color paint covering in this area, fading to the front.  Engine bay black applied at the front, just to cover where the exterior color didn't and then when the car was assembled, a lot of the exterior color covered over with sound deadener.  While the restored pic may look like white over black, it is actually the opposite, as it should be.

Is the restored picture pre "pinch weld black out"? I think I see pinch weld black out on the frame rail in the first picture. I'm trying to figure out how much pinch weld BO should hit the frame rail on mine.

Also, great shots showing under the spring cover that illustrating how far back the black did not go, lol.

[CharlesTurner]

Yes, restored pic is before pinch-weld black out.  On this car, I found it to be brushed on.

What you're seeing in the before pic is a combination of under fender area sound deadener mixed with dealer undercoating.

Yes, I try to investigate how a car was done the best I can before having it stripped down.  The paint pattern is pretty typical of Dearborn though, so it was more a matter of looking in the right places for verification.  The dealer undercoat was real hard, I could only get it off by chipping with a small screwdriver.

[jtfx6552]

Yes, restored pic is before pinch-weld black out.  On this car, I found it to be brushed on.

What you're seeing in the before pic is a combination of under fender area sound deadener mixed with dealer undercoating.

Yes, I try to investigate how a car was done the best I can before having it stripped down.  The paint pattern is pretty typical of Dearborn though, so it was more a matter of looking in the right places for verification.  The dealer undercoat was real hard, I could only get it off by chipping with a small screwdriver.

Are you/have you sprayed the front fender sound deadener? It's oh so pretty without that...