Topic: 1969 351W Rebuild

[9F94M567042]

Hi Everyone,

First off, feel free to move this post if it is not in the correct area. I own a 1969 Mercury Cougar w/a 351W. I just happen to have the original block out of my first cougar which I sold years ago. I sold it and then got it back and parted it out. Anyway, I also own a 1969 Cougar XR-7 Convertible in which I would like to R&R that engine with this one. I've been looking for someone to rebuild it for me, but have had no such luck, and way to expensive/to find qualified personnel to pursue that route. So, I'm thinking I will just tackle the rebuild myself.
So, I would like to ask the advice of the folks here as to what to ask for and require when I take it in to a machine shop and not look like a complete idiot and a fool. I know it would need to be cleaned obviously, check for cracks or other issues, machine the head surfaces and ?? I don't believe it would need to be bored over in the cylinders as I think it has only been rebuilt maybe once?
Don't mean to ask what might be a obvious question, but don't have any other resources to turn to.

I would like take the crank and heads in as well.

Thanks!

[jwc66k]

Where you are located would be a big advantage to locate an engine builder.
Jim

[J_Speegle]

So, I would like to ask the advice of the folks here as to what to ask for and require when I take it in to a machine shop and not look like a complete idiot and a fool. I know it would need to be cleaned obviously, check for cracks or other issues, machine the head surfaces and ?? I don't believe it would need to be bored over in the cylinders as I think it has only been rebuilt maybe once?

Your not going to know if it needs to be bored again or not until you get it in a shop and they measure it. Unfortunately most rebuilders (rebuilding for the first time) simply punch out a block to 30 over automatically reducing the metal your left to work with the second rebuild.  A good shop with help you by providing information but got to look at everything first so you can make your choices

[67gtasanjose]

+1, check the bore first before just punching out the holes. I try not boring or any additional machining at all unless a VERY good reason to do so. If the cylinders are rusty, might just bore it anyways.
If this is a simple rebuild with under 85K miles, everything is tight just only "old", not a knocker or all sludged up inside, likely you can get away with a good honing of the piston bores, new cam bearings, new rings, rod & main bearings, timing set, gaskets, oil pump, pickup screen and maybe a cam & lifers (definitely cam & lifters if sludgey inside)  Try if at all possible (pending accurate good results of measurements) to avoid all of the glamour of doing EVERYTHING. Just keep track of the "numbered", machined items (rod caps, main caps) and be sure they get back to the same places, facing the same direction as removed.
Strip down the block removing all freeze plugs, camshaft, crank, pistons, lifters down to a bare block. Send the bare block to be hot tanked at your machine shop. Be sure to have them brush out the oil galleries too (often people don't do this...not good ) Have them measure your bore and then get back to us or call a good builder with the results. Many machine shops are out to have you do EVERYTHING possible but often, if the above situations are true, those items are not needed. Don't over-do it. It's only "original" once. Plan on having the shop install your cam bearings. You usually should provide them a camshaft to help them. Your used one should be adequate. If you plan to reuse your old camshaft, maybe protect the lobes from "dinging" them by wrapping it up in rags. It is fragile.

You could send the heads in at the same time too (no rockers, but leave the valves in place) Be sure and hide a "punch mark" located in an unmachined area of the castings. Use this to ID your block & heads as "yours", hide this in a place that only you know where to look. Some places (shops) could be unscrupulous if you have anything of value...they could know somebody who needs "your" parts & habd you back somebody else's junk

There's so much more to write, but no more time right now. This is a good start.

[9F94M567042]

Where you are located would be a big advantage to locate an engine builder.
Jim

I'm in Colorado. Good Machine Shops are few and far between anymore. Some good advice so far Thanks!
I think I'll try and measure the bores to get an idea about whether they have been done before.

[J_Speegle]

I'm in Colorado. Good Machine Shops are few and far between anymore. Some good advice so far Thanks!
I think I'll try and measure the bores to get an idea about whether they have been done before.

The top surface of the pistons are normally marked if they are oversized. May need to scrap away the build up first

In measuring you'll need to do it a number of times each cylinder and compare top measurements to the bottom ones for tapper

[9F94M567042]

The top surface of the pistons are normally marked if they are oversized. May need to scrap away the build up first

In measuring you'll need to do it a number of times each cylinder and compare top measurements to the bottom ones for tapper

Jeff,
The top of the pistons are marked .030. Is that an indication she's been rebuilt already?
And if so, would I go to the next size or do .030 again?

[J_Speegle]

Jeff,
The top of the pistons are marked .030. Is that an indication she's been rebuilt already?
And if so, would I go to the next size or do .030 again?

Yes its been at least bored and larger pistons installed - likely part of a "standard" sort of rebuild

If and how much more will be determined by the measuring we've been discuss

Might be a good time for me to mention that there is a book out there that has been around for ages and provides IMHO a very good overview of a regular rebuild and explains allot of things. How to Rebuild your Small-block Ford. Originally published by HPBooks a well worn and used copy has been in my library and shop for 40 plus years. Might be available online or pdf version by now

[9F94M567042]

Might be a good time for me to mention that there is a book out there that has been around for ages and provides IMHO a very good overview of a regular rebuild and explains allot of things. How to Rebuild your Small-block Ford. Originally published by HPBooks a well worn and used copy has been in my library and shop for 40 plus years. Might be available online or pdf version by now

I have that very book! Also its sister book, How to Rebuild your Ford V8, covers 351C/M, 428 etc.  Good resources indeed

[67gtasanjose]

If pistons have been replaced, +90% chance your crankshaft has been machined down too. There will be identifiers on the bearing inserts what sizs they are. My thoughts are to not exceed a .010 on the rods & .010 on the mains or maybe a .010-.020  crank. Chances are that you are already at or beyond those cuts. The deeper the previous machining, the more likely the engine looses integrity or quality on the final build (translates to a shorter life) 
Like with the block, more machining usually translates into more trouble. Less is more BUT ONLY IF IT IS NOT NEEDED. That is where very close and accurate measurements can help you and mistakes or assumptions will seriously hurt you. Machine shops are VERY hungry these days. They will attempt to talk you into MORE to be safer. Since you are not a machinist, it is generally easier to simply agree and do what is suggested. Many good machinists out there but many also that are not so good. DO RESEARCH on the shop you choose BEFORE you let them do anything more than hot tanking your parts. 

[9F94M567042]

Looks like all of the bearing inserts are .010

[1967 eight barrel]

Sadly, most small blocks are done at .040. Is there a ridge at the top of the cylinder?  Before you consider a .060 overbore, I would spend the 80-100.00 and have the block sonic checked before you spend any money on it. 
                                                                                      -Keith

[stuartb01]

Go to your local Barnes & Noble, etc. and get a good book like Rebuilding Your Small-Block Ford by Tom Monroe, or other reference material.  This will help you become educated and avoid rooky mistakes that often end up costing a lot of wasted money. 

[jwc66k]

Go to your local Barnes & Noble, etc. and get a good book like Rebuilding Your Small-Block Ford by Tom Monroe, or other reference material.  This will help you become educated and avoid rooky mistakes that often end up costing a lot of wasted money.

An alternate source is ABE Books http://www.abebooks.com/ There are 5 currently listed starting at $14.50 including shipping.
Jim