Author Topic: Painting patterns and standards for April 67 Dearborn convertible GTA  (Read 5307 times)

Offline dlevy

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Hi All,

 Is there a book, compilation of original photos, or other reliable resource to identify the most accurate painting patterns on a 1967 Mustang, Detroit built in April?

 Looking for overspray patterns for the main color, under hood black overspray, and dash color overspray.

 Any guidance appreciated.

 Thanks
 Dave

Offline J_Speegle

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Is there a book,

Nope


compilation of original photos, or other reliable resource to identify the most accurate painting patterns on a 1967 Mustang, Detroit built in April?

Welcome to the site - you've got us. Give me some time to assembly some things - THANKS for including when and where the car was built. You'll need that with most of your posts/questions.  Don't expect nice pretty redone restored cars. Focus is on originals. ;)

You'll find that using the search to check earlier post is often the best place to start. Not exactly what your looking for at the moments but allot of info that you will likely be asking about later


http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5365.msg30131#msg30131

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=10157.msg60232#msg60232

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3661.msg19862#msg19862

Also might want to check out the Assembly plant sections - should be some paint pictures for 68. Lots of pictures taken that year due to the strike
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline dlevy

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Hi Jeff,

Thank you very much for those links. Much appreciated. If you know of others, I would appreciate some guidance there as well.

Here are some pictures of my car as of last week.

Thanks,
Dave

Offline ruppstang

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It look pretty rust free. Good for you. You will want to remove the cross member for detailing.
Good luck with you project and welcome here.
Marty

Offline J_Speegle

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Let's us give this a try. Have a question lets discuss it further

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Steps are as follows for a 67 Dearborn built car - the car was prepped with the doors, trunk lid, rear end caps loosely installed and the rear valance in place (valance hung from the taillight panel only by all the mounting screws). The body was placed on a series of 8 dolly posts that secured it to a moving track and elevated it above that track by approx 2 feet


1– Exterior was painted using a red oxide color primer sealer. Over this a light gray primer surfacer was applied

2- Sound deadener and sealers were applied to the A pillar, cowl, interior and trunk areas as well as the rear wheel wells area.

3- Epoxy primer with left over exterior color from the day before mixed in giving a number of different tones was typically used at this plant and time period. During 67 the tone was generally a dark gray semi-gloss color The engine compartment area, bottom body section and much of the top area of the body received the traditional red oxide

4- Either before or just after the undercarriage paint application the interior surfaces such as dash, interior door, A pillars were painted then masked off from later paint applications

5- Some seams and the seat belt reinforcements are chalked. The quarter or floor drops and the seat belt points were applied with a brush or pushed out of a gun
then smeared with a brush or thinner dipped rag It appears from samples only the inner anchor points were sealed in this manner– this step was often overlooked
at Dearborn

6– Exterior color was applied with some over spray flowing onto the undercarriage surfaces especially in the rear wheel well and exposed frame area. The further a part of the pan hung down the more overspray it received. Application of the overspray could be a little or allot but never the whole floor pan. In the rear wheel wells the area received a nice coat of paint in most cases and over spray/ nice coat often found its way onto the exposed rear frame rail that are visible from the wheel well. Individual parts were being painted with the same paints in a separate line and would be added to the unibody later

7– Next the engine compartment paint is applied. As the drawings and pictures show on the wheel side the black would stop about the front edge of the front
spring pocket (shock tower) area.

8– Next the pinch weld was blacked out. The outer edge was a soft edge so many painted just back mask the line. The over spray from this application would
again cover some of the undercarriage as it would naturally. Again the more part of the pan hung down the more paint/black out it received. The amount of
overspray generally would be less the distance that the body color traveled as it was applied with less pressure

9– Once the front fenders were installed the wheel wells were blackout with sound deadener. At the same point the front wheel wells were over the inner fender
panel, along the area of the fenders that meet the splash shields and up over the top of the fender. This step was not shown in either set of drawings. It appears
that typically Cougars received twice as much sound deadener in this area than Mustangs

Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline brennancarey

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Thks Jeff , VERY informative and helpful !
 :) :) :) :) :) :)
67 GTA 390 Fastback
Dark Moss Green
Dearborn
Build Date 12/28/66

Offline gtamustang

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Something is odd about your floor pans for a 67 convertible. It appears that you are missing the one per side, 3-inch seat bolt access hole at the front, drive-shaft tunnel location. All 67 and 68 convertibles had these. Maybe your floor pans have been replaced and a 65-66 part was used. It will be easier to address that now before paint!

As for the painting sequence, what Jeff says!!

Regards,
Pete Morgan

Offline dlevy

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Hi Pete,

That is to say the least, quite distressing!  I am not sure where this hole is. 

I was looking through old posts and the floor pan kits in the catalogs to see if I could find a good picture, but seems like coupe and convertible use the same repro pans in the catalogs and could not find a good picture online.

Any chance you have a picture of this?

Thanks,
Dave
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 11:22:29 AM by dlevy »

Offline WT8095

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Pete, is this what you're referring to? From Scott Fuller. They reproduce the metal plugs that cover the large holes.
http://www.scottfullerreproductions.com/i//tn_FP2.jpg

As explained in later replies, this photo is a '68. Leaving it here only to illustrate the difference between the two years. Jeff has posted a photo of a '67 below.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 06:11:37 PM by WT8095 »
Dave Z.

'68 fastback, S-code + C6. Special Paint (Rainbow promotion), DSO 710784. Actual build date 2/7/1968, San Jose.
'69 Cougar convertible, 351W-2V + FMX, Meadowlark Yellow.

Offline gtamustang

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Dave,

That is exactly what I am referring to. The picture from Scott's website is a 68 convertible floor. The 67 convertible floor has the two large holes at the front instead of one up and one back.

Regards,
Pete Morgan

Offline J_Speegle

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That is exactly what I am referring to. The picture from Scott's website is a 68 convertible floor. The 67 convertible floor has the two large holes at the front instead of one up and one back.


Yes I think the 68 picture is going to confuse someone since its different than 67 we're discussing

Here is a shot of a 67 convertible  to illustrate

Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline dlevy

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Thank you. Really good to find that out now.

Since the pans I have are obviously not correct, is this essentially a matter making the 2 front inner most holes 3" diameter or are there other differences.

Here are some additional pictures of the car.

Thanks,
Dave

Offline dlevy

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Hi Jeff,

Really glad you asked for questions. I have a lot of them. First thanks for providing this sequence of steps. It really helps a lot.  Please forgive some of my questions if they seem ignorant, I just want to make sure I am doing this work concurs correct.

Here goes:

1– Exterior was painted using a red oxide color primer sealer. Over this a light gray primer surfacer was applied
   
•   Not sure I understand about the light gray primer being sprayed over the red oxide. All the pictures of the exposed primer are red oxide. Were only certain areas sprayed with the light gray?

2- Sound deadener and sealers were applied to the A pillar, cowl, interior and trunk areas as well as the rear wheel wells area.

•   At this stage was seam sealer applied to the entire car?
•   If not when was the rest of it applied?
•   What other areas got the sound deadener and when? I see that in #9 below sound deadener is applied to the front fender wells at that stage. How about inside the doors?.


3- Epoxy primer with left over exterior color from the day before mixed in giving a number of different tones was typically used at this plant and time period. During 67 the tone was generally a dark gray semi-gloss color The engine compartment area, bottom body section and much of the top area of the body received the traditional red oxide

•   To what parts of the car was the dark gray semi-gloss primer applied?
•   This seems to be a 3rd coat of a different color primer (from #1 above: red oxide, then
light gray, then dark gray semi-gloss)


4- Either before or just after the undercarriage paint application the interior surfaces such as dash, interior door, A pillars were painted then masked off from later paint applications

•   I thought the undercarriage was unpainted red oxide or light grey or dark gray semi-gloss from #1 & #3 above. I am not sure what you mean by “undercarriage paint application”.
•   When you refer to the interior surfaces, I assume that in my case would be the parchment color. Do you happen to have any pictures you could share to demonstrate the extent of what should be painted with the interior color?


5- Some seams and the seat belt reinforcements are chalked. The quarter or floor drops and the seat belt points were applied with a brush or pushed out of a gun then smeared with a brush or thinner dipped rag It appears from samples only the inner anchor points were sealed in this manner– this step was often overlooked at Dearborn

•   What does it mean, “chalked”?
•   What was the product that is used to chalk? 
•   What other areas should I be chalking?


6– Exterior color was applied with some over spray flowing onto the undercarriage surfaces especially in the rear wheel well and exposed frame area. The further a part of the pan hung down the more overspray it received. Application of the overspray could be a little or allot but never the whole floor pan. In the rear wheel wells the area received a nice coat of paint in most cases and over spray/ nice coat often found its way onto the exposed rear frame rail that are visible from the wheel well. Individual parts were being painted with the same paints in a separate line and would be added to the unibody later

•   This section I understand!!
•   So the sound deadener in the rear wheel wells and trunk are painted over with the exterior color.
•   How well is the trunk painted with exterior color? Onto the side walls and into the drops?


7– Next the engine compartment paint is applied. As the drawings and pictures show on the wheel side the black would stop about the front edge of the front spring pocket (shock tower) area.

•   OK, so the exterior (in my case Brittany Blue) would be sprayed just beyond the front edge of the front spring pocket and that edge would be covered with the black engine compartment paint to ensure no gaps of paint, Right?
•   I understand the engine compartment paint color along with all the suspension parts are the same semi-gloss/matte black. Is that correct?


8– Next the pinch weld was blacked out. The outer edge was a soft edge so many painted just back mask the line. The over spray from this application would again cover some of the undercarriage as it would naturally. Again the more part of the pan hung down the more paint/black out it received. The amount of overspray generally would be less the distance that the body color traveled as it was applied with less pressure

•   What does this refer to, “next the pinch weld was blacked out”.
•   Where is the pinch weld? Is this the vertical seam under the rocker panels?
•   “soft edge”?
•   And when you say, “blacked out” do you mean it is now sprayed with the engine compartment color black paint or something else? Is this what is pictured on page 30 the Osborn Body Assembly manual?


9– Once the front fenders were installed the wheel wells were blackout with sound deadener. At the same point the front wheel wells were over the inner fender panel, along the area of the fenders that meet the splash shields and up over the top of the fender. This step was not shown in either set of drawings. It appears that typically Cougars received twice as much sound deadener in this area than Mustangs

•   What kind of coverage of sound deadener was applied to the front wheel well area?
•   Could you clarify this too, “At the same point the front wheel wells were over the inner fender panel, along the area of the fenders that meet the splash shields and up over the top of the fender.”
•   Do you mean sound deadener was applied along the seam so when the fender comes down it will sandwich the sound deadener between the fender edge and the outer edge of the splash shield? (in the Osborn Assemble manual page 9, item “W” (ESB-M4G32-A black sealer 0.12 x 1” x length required))



Again, I really appreciate your willingness to help set me straight.

Regards,
Dave
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 11:34:22 PM by dlevy »

Offline J_Speegle

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Will take this in steps ;)

Really glad you asked for questions. I have a lot of them. First thanks for providing this sequence of steps. It really helps a lot.  Please forgive some of my questions if they seem ignorant, I just want to make sure I am doing this work concurs correct.

Not my first concours rodeo  8)

1– Exterior was painted using a red oxide color primer sealer. Over this a light gray primer surfacer was applied
   
•   Not sure I understand about the light gray primer being sprayed over the red oxide. All the pictures of the exposed primer are red oxide. Were only certain areas sprayed with the light gray?

Exterior panels such as the roof, fenders, valances, headlight buckets, exterior surface of quarter panels, doors, .....




2- Sound deadener and sealers were applied to the A pillar, cowl, interior and trunk areas as well as the rear wheel wells area.

•   At this stage was seam sealer applied to the entire car?
•   If not when was the rest of it applied?

Sealers appear to have been applied at multiple times and stations. You likely have the engine compartment and front wheel wells done at the same station while interior done at another. Not enough time to do it all at one.  For a restoration its most important IMHO to understand what too place before or after the final top coat of paint, primer, overspray ....... since that is what you will see int he final product


•   What other areas got the sound deadener and when? I see that in #9 below sound deadener is applied to the front fender wells at that stage. How about inside the doors?.[/i][/color]


Doors were likely done where they were built - before shipping.  Interior surfaces (quarter panels and such were likely done just before or after the interior seam sealing


3- Epoxy primer with left over exterior color from the day before mixed in giving a number of different tones was typically used at this plant and time period. During 67 the tone was generally a dark gray semi-gloss color The engine compartment area, bottom body section and much of the top area of the body received the traditional red oxide

•   To what parts of the car was the dark gray semi-gloss primer applied?
•   This seems to be a 3rd coat of a different color primer (from #1 above: red oxide, then
light gray, then dark gray semi-gloss)

The illustration will explain that




4- Either before or just after the undercarriage paint application the interior surfaces such as dash, interior door, A pillars were painted then masked off from later paint applications

•   I thought the undercarriage was unpainted red oxide or light grey or dark gray semi-gloss from #1 & #3 above. I am not sure what you mean by “undercarriage paint application”.

Step above refers to the coating of the undercarriage - Firewall forward with red oxide and from firewall rearward the batch gray mixture


•   When you refer to the interior surfaces, I assume that in my case would be the parchment color. Do you happen to have any pictures you could share to demonstrate the extent of what should be painted with the interior color?[/i][/color]

Hope these help - Did use a couple of other plants to provide better and more color correct for your car examples but all the same in this area. At least for the areas used

Door bottom edge finish -




Door face - 






Door inner surface -



Dash face - Glove box attached during painting




Firewall interior side




A pillar and top of dash with vent black outs




Enough for this post

Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline carlite65

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'chalked' is jeff's term for caulking.
5F09C331248