Topic: Paper tag on 65 Coupe rear seat back

[DJames]

I've been working on this car, a Dearborn 65 coupe with a scheduled production date of March 30th, 1965, off and on for the owner over the last couple of years. Mostly just little things to keep it chugging down the road, but, I did recently put a fresh motor in it, and now the owner is all pumped up about making the car both a little more presentable and safer to put his kids in. I was installing a cross piece behind the rear seat to attach shoulder harnesses to and had to remove the back seat because there was some welding involved, and found this attached to the seat back. I have never seen this before, so, I sent a picture of it to a couple of people that might have seen such a thing, and, they apparently sent it to people, and so far, nobody has seen it. So, has anyone ever seen this before?

[jwc66k]

Occasionally, yes. The seat frames are made by an outside vendor, strapped/wrapped together, identified and shipped to the assembly plant. It's another piece of the assembly line puzzle.
Jim

[J_Speegle]

...... So, has anyone ever seen this before?

Yes and Jim's explaination is the same as my understanding. We find tags for the same purpose from time to time on other parts that make up the finished car though the form and tag is of a different style and format.  Don't see them very often since the paper typically does not last this long and (like this example 1 of 62) only one unit out of a stack of them got a tag like this

[DJames]

Yes and Jim's explaination is the same as my understanding. We find tags for the same purpose from time to time on other parts that make up the finished car though the form and tag is of a different style and format.  Don't see them very often since the paper typically does not last this long and (like this example 1 of 62) only one unit out of a stack of them got a tag like this

Thanks for the responses. And, yes, I've also found various tags and identifiers stuck to parts that ended up on the cars during the assembly process, but, as you said, they were of a different style and format. I guess this was just one particular supplier's way of marking things, and, with a one out of 62 shot at finding it, the odds were hardly in a person's favor back in the 60s. I've been working on these cars for quite a while and I've never seen a tag like this one, but, after decades of working on these cars, I still see things on a fairly regular basis that I've never seen before. Thanks again.

[CharlesTurner]

Yep, that's what keeps things interesting.  Always learning something new!

[mtinkham]

Interesting that the tag has the computer printer perforations, yet everything is hand written.

[DJames]

Interesting that the tag has the computer printer perforations, yet everything is hand written.

And, the National Cash Register Company felt like that was a cool enough paper design to patent.  It has a couple of staples in the left side, but, it is a single sheet. I guess there used to be two, and one was pulled off to file somewhere? It was held onto the seat back with that same wire that they used for tags elsewhere, like the radiator tag under the hood. I just untwisted it, scanned the tag, and then put it back on the guy's seat back. If it stayed back there for 50 years, I guess it has gotten pretty comfortable back there.

[NEFaurora]

Great find!  Dated too!

I always wondered what "AMP" meant that I found on the Aluminum metal foil seat tags in between the foam cushions... Now we know!  AMP was apparently the vendor.....!!

)

Tony K.

[DJames]

Also, the car had a scheduled production date of March 30th on the door tag, which might help out on how long parts sat around before they ended up on a car. Not very. It has always annoyed me to hear people argue that the two 289 cylinder heads on their motor are both original when they have dates cast into them that vary by a couple of weeks. A load of cylinder heads that arrive from the foundry are going to have either the same date or, at most a spread of two three consecutive dates, depending on how big of a load arrived. How did one cylinder head get pushed to the side for a couple of weeks and then end up on a motor? Judges might accept that at shows because they both fall within the specified range for a given car, but, I just can't imagine that the car actually rolled out the door of the assembly plant like that.

[WT8095]

I just can't imagine that the car actually rolled out the door of the assembly plant like that.

There are a number of steps in the process flow to consider. First the head is cast. Some quantity of castings is accumulated before they move to the machining operations. This may involve moving to a different building, or even to a different city, depending on which engine and time period you're looking at. After machining, assembly begins, to install valves and springs. There is another accumulation of some quantity of WIP (work-in-progress). There may have been a separate inspection or testing area for the head assemblies, again with more WIP. Presumably there was a rework loop for heads that didn't meet spec - these heads would lag even further behind their "siblings". Finally, heads would then go to the engine assemby area.

At each of the points of accumulation, the quantity per container (pallets seem likely) and number of containers in the storage area and shipping vehicles must be considered. Also, other than keeping track of part number and revision level, there is not a strong incentive to keep a FIFO (first-in, first-out) sequence. For example, parts cast on the 1st may get put into a storage areas with five days worth of build. At that point, parts made on the 5th might be the first ones going to the machining op. Depending on how pallets are stored, parts might be pulled in more of a random order. Note that trucks and railcars aren't loaded FIFO - the first pallets in are the last ones out. New batches of parts may be getting put into the storage area before all of the old ones are pulled, creating more mixing. Lastly, all of the overlap and mixing is not necessarily constant throughout the model year - there may be times when the foundry falls behind and castings are being used "as soon as they cool", or engine assembly might be running behind and accumulating more WIP post-inspection.

To those familiar with manufacturing flow and logistics, a couple of weeks is not hard to imagine at all. To make a judgement call on what is "too much" of a date spread would require a fairly good knowledge of Ford's process flow and inventory procedures. Lacking that, the next best thing is forensic data from folks working on or dismantling cars - people on this forum for example.

[rodster]

......

To those familiar with manufacturing flow and logistics, a couple of weeks is not hard to imagine at all. To make a judgement call on what is "too much" of a date spread would require a fairly good knowledge of Ford's process flow and inventory procedures.

...

I have a 67 Fairlane with a door tag date of March 9th and found a similar paper tag on the rear bench seat with a Jan 13 date.  More than a couple of weeks apart.   

[DJames]

There are a number of steps in the process flow to consider. First the head is cast. Some quantity of castings is accumulated before they move to the machining operations. This may involve moving to a different building, or even to a different city, depending on which engine and time period you're looking at. After machining, assembly begins, to install valves and springs. There is another accumulation of some quantity of WIP (work-in-progress). There may have been a separate inspection or testing area for the head assemblies, again with more WIP. Presumably there was a rework loop for heads that didn't meet spec - these heads would lag even further behind their "siblings". Finally, heads would then go to the engine assemby area.

At each of the points of accumulation, the quantity per container (pallets seem likely) and number of containers in the storage area and shipping vehicles must be considered. Also, other than keeping track of part number and revision level, there is not a strong incentive to keep a FIFO (first-in, first-out) sequence. For example, parts cast on the 1st may get put into a storage areas with five days worth of build. At that point, parts made on the 5th might be the first ones going to the machining op. Depending on how pallets are stored, parts might be pulled in more of a random order. Note that trucks and railcars aren't loaded FIFO - the first pallets in are the last ones out. New batches of parts may be getting put into the storage area before all of the old ones are pulled, creating more mixing. Lastly, all of the overlap and mixing is not necessarily constant throughout the model year - there may be times when the foundry falls behind and castings are being used "as soon as they cool", or engine assembly might be running behind and accumulating more WIP post-inspection.

To those familiar with manufacturing flow and logistics, a couple of weeks is not hard to imagine at all. To make a judgement call on what is "too much" of a date spread would require a fairly good knowledge of Ford's process flow and inventory procedures. Lacking that, the next best thing is forensic data from folks working on or dismantling cars - people on this forum for example.

I wasn't really looking to start a big thing with that, it was merely an observation.  The longer I mess around with the cars, the more I see the sheer volume of stuff that I do not know, and, in most situations, I will happily concede that the correct answer is 'I'm not sure, but....' As far as the forensic phase goes, all I can do is relay what I've seen. On cars that appear to be unmolested everywhere else, the cylinder heads have almost invariably had date codes within a day or two of each other.  Again, merely an observation. The cars that I have actually worked on are an infinitesimally small percentage of total production, but, I would think that the fact that I have been taking these cars apart and putting them back together all day, every day for the last 30 years would qualify me to have an opinion. But, at the end of the day, that's all that it is. An opinion.