Topic: 1967 Power Brake Booster Hoses

[196667Bob]

Marty : Thanks for the pictures (I think). I'm a little confused though; most likely because yours has (at least) PB and A/C. It appears that the vacuum line to the transmission comes off of the brass tee on the intake, and, contrary to other comments and diagrams, does not come from the check valve on the booster. This is probably (?) due to the other vacuum sources being needed.  Is the check valve on your booster capped on the port that otherwise would have gone to the transmission ?

Thanks,

Bob

[ruppstang]

Our car has 289 2V, Automatic Transmission,PB, PS, AC, Tilt column and imco emissions.

[J_Speegle]

......... early Dearborn 67 C Code with AT and PB (no A/C, Tilt or TE), ...........

Finding examples (like your request) with the vacuum line to the booster.

Collecting pictures now - will post once I get them all and sized. Guess you have already looked at the other vacuum charts and information in the various other Ford manuals

[ruppstang]

Marty : Thanks for the pictures (I think). I'm a little confused though; most likely because yours has (at least) PB and A/C. It appears that the vacuum line to the transmission comes off of the brass tee on the intake, and, contrary to other comments and diagrams, does not come from the check valve on the booster. This is probably (?) due to the other vacuum sources being needed.  Is the check valve on your booster capped on the port that otherwise would have gone to the transmission ?

Thanks,

Bob

Yes the port on the booster is capped.  I think our 68 has similar routing. May Jeff has some pictures of some unrestored examples.

[Bob Gaines]

Yes the port on the booster is capped.  I think our 68 has similar routing. May Jeff has some pictures of some unrestored examples.

Marty , even though the subject is vacuum hose I thought I would mention something about the picture posted so that there is no confusion. The whole Master/booster assembly -master ,booster ,bail wire and everything in between is painted as a unit semi gloss black .The clamp was typically the zinc silver crimp type for 67/68 . The black oxide pinch clamp on the hose was typically 69/70.

[196667Bob]

Jeff : Hopefully the transmission vacuum line to the Booster. I think that pictures will probably be the best. As I think you know, I have a pretty extensive Ford library I've assembled over the past 55 years, the last 40 including 65-67 Mustang info. I have checked everything except the 1967 Engine Assembly Manual and my TSB's. I doubt that the TSB's will shed any light, but possibly the Engine Assembly Manual.. I'll check it. Hopefully, your pictures will take care of the routing questions, but of course not the dimensions.

Marty : Thanks for the additional picture - just as I surmised.

Thanks to both of you.

Bob

[67gta289]

Here are the pics from my car, 289 auto power brakes, thermactor, SJ, Dec 66.  These are from before the restoration started.   Not too long after I got the car on the road in early 1980 I had problems with the trans shifting, and found the vacuum hose from the booster valve to the trans to be brittle, so I replaced it with "by the foot" vacuum hose at a local auto parts store.  So I can't offer that as original, and the length is probably not valid either, considering Bob's request.

The brake booster hose, which I believe to be original, has different clamps than what shows in the picture that Marty posted.  That might be a related topic to chase down.  Also I included a picture of the end of the hose which shows that it is a "corded" type hose.  Sorry for the fuzzy pic there.

As a side, note, looking at the pictures, I do recall also changing the brake MC and cap, and the front shocks.  Bought the front shocks at Sears, and the girl that cashed me out asked what kind of car it was for.  She was impressed.  But I did not ask for a date since the girl I was dating would become my wife.

[67gtasanjose]

Has anyone looked at the image of "Installation-Max Vacuum Options Hose Routing-Engine Compartment" (page 7 of Osborn CHASSIS Assembly Manual)

This would be for 67 Mustang/Cougar 289 engines.

I believe this image, along with other original examples, indicate several things. FIRST: There are probably running changes with respect to the vacuum canister type and location (discussed in other threads within this site)
SECOND: That depending upon the option list of any car, assembly worker or plant location, there very well can be different examples of how the particular worker at a particular assembly plant (at different dates) may have interpreted these instructions.

Marty's example, best I recollect, was a NON-THERMACTOR CAR, built in San Jose for sale in the Midwest (Nebraska)
.
Other San Jose examples built WITH THERMACTOR, Select-Aire air conditioning, power disc brakes etc. (including my 11-1-1966 built SJ coupe) DID (or could?) ORIGINALLY HAVE THE TRANSMISSION MODULATOR HOSE CONNECED TO THE BRAKE BOOSTER.

As others seem to indicate (Jeff), there are examples where this would be true. I am waiting for pictures from Jeff too to hopefully help determine this as true, "correct information" but it looks like if your 289 early San Jose also had these four options (factory Select-Aire, Thermactor, power brakes and auto transmission) the hose should be found connected to the brake booster. (again, at least on 289's built in San Jose, for EARLY built 67 Mustangs and Cougars.

[67gtasanjose]

Here are the pics from my car, 289 auto power brakes, thermactor, SJ, Dec 66.  These are from before the restoration started.   Not too long after I got the car on the road in early 1980 I had problems with the trans shifting, and found the vacuum hose from the booster valve to the trans to be brittle, so I replaced it with "by the foot" vacuum hose at a local auto parts store.  So I can't offer that as original, and the length is probably not valid either, considering Bob's request.

The brake booster hose, which I believe to be original, has different clamps than what shows in the picture that Marty posted.  That might be a related topic to chase down.  Also I included a picture of the end of the hose which shows that it is a "corded" type hose.  Sorry for the fuzzy pic there.

As a side, note, looking at the pictures, I do recall also changing the brake MC and cap, and the front shocks.  Bought the front shocks at Sears, and the girl that cashed me out asked what kind of car it was for.  She was impressed.  But I did not ask for a date since the girl I was dating would become my wife.

John, your information is almost exact to mine in regard to the hose location and replacement. I know I changed these hoses out after I bought my example in 1978, they also were brittle. I have no pictures of "before" but I certainly would not have changed the "where" they would have been connected and my modulator hose was always connected to the brake booster until the day my booster failed and I needed to bypass it for a while til it was replaced. After replacing the booster, I reconnected it as it was before, ON THE BOOSTER. I believe this to be 100% accurate and even matches what the body assembly manual looks to be showing.

[196667Bob]

Has anyone looked at the image of "Installation-Max Vacuum Options Hose Routing-Engine Compartment" (page 7 of Osborn CHASSIS Assembly Manual)

This would be for 67 Mustang/Cougar 289 engines.

Richard : The "image" you refer to is the third picture attached in my "Reply # 3". As I noted (at least I think I did),  this shows, at least to my eyes, the vacuum line going from the Booster Check Valve to the transmission. However, it also shows all of the other vacuum lines for other Options, so my question in regard to that image is, "would it be the same  if you only had one, or two of the Options" ? Of course this still doesn't address my original question as to ID, OD Length and Markings.

On another note and idea, in my particular case, since my car did not come with PB from the Factory (and from all of my info PB were not an Option on Drum Brakes), I'm looking at the addition as an "Accessory". This is listed in the Accessory Section of the 1960-68 MPC as Part # C7ZZ-2A091-A, Kit, Power Brake Booster Installation, F (drum brakes). Included in the "contents" of the Kit are 5 "tubes" and 1 "hose". While I could not find any of the exact part numbers listed for these 6 items in my 67, 1960-68 or 1965-72 MPC's, similar part numbers (including the one noted "hose") show that they are either Master Cylinder brake line/fitting related, or intake manifold tee/steel tube elbow related. No I.S. (Instruction Sheet) number is noted as included in the Kit, but there must have been one. A copy of it might shed some light if it could ever be found.

Getting a little "off track" from the "hose" subject of my original Post, yet related to the contents of the Kit, are the pedals. Both Manual Transmission and Automatic Transmission pedals are shown as being part of the Kit. What's interesting here, is that the Automatic Transmission Pedal shown is the same as that which is used on the Power Disc Brake Option. This by itself is not too hard to fathom; but what makes it interesting, is that cars equipped with the Power Disc Brakes used a different dash to firewall pedal support than those without.  Apparently (?), since no dash to firewall support is included in the Kit, the Power Disc Brake Pedal will work in the non power Pedal Support Anyone have any evidence of this ?

Bob

[Bob Gaines]

Here are the pics from my car, 289 auto power brakes, thermactor, SJ, Dec 66.  These are from before the restoration started.   Not too long after I got the car on the road in early 1980 I had problems with the trans shifting, and found the vacuum hose from the booster valve to the trans to be brittle, so I replaced it with "by the foot" vacuum hose at a local auto parts store.  So I can't offer that as original, and the length is probably not valid either, considering Bob's request.

The brake booster hose, which I believe to be original, has different clamps than what shows in the picture that Marty posted. That might be a related topic to chase down.  Also I included a picture of the end of the hose which shows that it is a "corded" type hose. Sorry for the fuzzy pic there.

As a side, note, looking at the pictures, I do recall also changing the brake MC and cap, and the front shocks. Bought the front shocks at Sears, and the girl that cashed me out asked what kind of car it was for.  She was impressed.  But I did not ask for a date since the girl I was dating would become my wife.

See reply #19. Dead nuts on sells the correct hose although you would have to wipe off the markings which are 69/70 versions. Many times the 67/68 were plain .The booster has been changed out too. the entire unit as a assembly was painted and the white check valve would have been painted black along with the booster  plus the aluminum tag is missing from the booster band clamp which is common to get lost during the rebuilding process. Just some observations to go along with the pictures in case someone try's to copy because of originality concerns.

[J_Speegle]

Trying to focus solely on 67 Dearborn 289 applications I found the following 4 examples. Only one matches the PB & AT options as outlined in the prior posts.

Think the discussion related to San Jose cars needs to be a separate discussion

So with VIN's and list of options (best I can tell) I offer the following


7F01C1153xx AC PB AT Trans line hooked to booster check valve





7F01C1291xx AC PB AT Tilt Trans line hooked to booster check valve





7F02C1373xx AC PB ATTrans line likely attached to intake rear vacuum block





7F02C2127xx PB ATTrans line likely attached to intake rear vacuum block

[67gtasanjose]

Richard : The "image" you refer to is the third picture attached in my "Reply # 3". As I noted (at least I think I did),  this shows, at least to my eyes, the vacuum line going from the Booster Check Valve to the transmission. However, it also shows all of the other vacuum lines for other Options, so my question in regard to that image is, "would it be the same  if you only had one, or two of the Options" ? Of course this still doesn't address my original question as to ID, OD Length and Markings.

On another note and idea, in my particular case, since my car did not come with PB from the Factory (and from all of my info PB were not an Option on Drum Brakes), I'm looking at the addition as an "Accessory". This is listed in the Accessory Section of the 1960-68 MPC as Part # C7ZZ-2A091-A, Kit, Power Brake Booster Installation, F (drum brakes). Included in the "contents" of the Kit are 5 "tubes" and 1 "hose". While I could not find any of the exact part numbers listed for these 6 items in my 67, 1960-68 or 1965-72 MPC's, similar part numbers (including the one noted "hose") show that they are either Master Cylinder brake line/fitting related, or intake manifold tee/steel tube elbow related. No I.S. (Instruction Sheet) number is noted as included in the Kit, but there must have been one. A copy of it might shed some light if it could ever be found.

Getting a little "off track" from the "hose" subject of my original Post, yet related to the contents of the Kit, are the pedals. Both Manual Transmission and Automatic Transmission pedals are shown as being part of the Kit. What's interesting here, is that the Automatic Transmission Pedal shown is the same as that which is used on the Power Disc Brake Option. This by itself is not too hard to fathom; but what makes it interesting, is that cars equipped with the Power Disc Brakes used a different dash to firewall pedal support than those without.  Apparently (?), since no dash to firewall support is included in the Kit, the Power Disc Brake Pedal will work in the non power Pedal Support Anyone have any evidence of this ?

Bob

Power brakes on DRUM BRAKE Mustangs NOT an option

I don't believe this to be true, that or the ones I have seen (and I have seen several)  were added.

[196667Bob]

Trying to focus solely on 67 Dearborn 289 applications I found the following 4 examples. Only one matches the PB & AT options as outlined in the prior posts.

Jeff : Thanks for taking the time to dig up the Dearborn examples and Post them. I appreciate it. One thing they definitely show - there is no real consistency. It sure seems odd to me that on a car that came with AT only (which had only a single 90 degree fitting on the intake manifold, threaded for a steel tube to which the hose from the modulator was attached), that the Dealer would take the time to replace that fitting with a multi-ported one, instead of using the extra port on the Check Valve, and using a new piece of hose.
I guess, as one of my long time late 50's Ford friends says in trying to explain something like this, "It's a Ford".

Power brakes on DRUM BRAKE Mustangs NOT an option

I don't believe this to be true, that or the ones I have seen (and I have seen several)  were added.

Richard : I suppose I should have been a little more specific with my comment, and said something like "from all the info that I have, including MPC's, Sales Brochures, Showroom Option Book, Saleman's Price Guide, etc., PB are not shown as a Factory Option. As I mentioned, the Power Brake Booster Kit was available as an Accessory for Drum Brake cars, and as such, was also then available as a "Dealer Option". I just personally have not been able to put my hands on anything that confirms that it was available as a "Factory Option". Just another example of how careful and precise one must be in his or her wording. Of course if someone has any documentation that PB were available for Drum Brakes from the Factory, that would be good to know.

Thanks to both,

Bob

[ruppstang]

I have not seen a Factory power drum brake car. I have converted a 67 my self. You do have to use a master cylinder that is made for that application. They do make one so there must be a few cars out there.