Topic: 70 conv Pace Car front support

[JohnRB]

Hi all

On my 70 ARI Pace Car convertible (0F03R120303), the front support has some "non factory" modification.

See pic.



Here is a little blury pic with the oil cooler in place.



When I state "non factory", it was clearly not done at the assembly line, but all Pace Cars did get several modifications done to them in I R Building garage (Ford experimental garage). However, I am not sure this modification was done there or if its a PO modification. On top of that, the front support has previously been grinded a little hard, so no markings to be found anywhere.

Question;  What should I do?

Option 1 = Leave alone
Option 2 = Close the hole
Option 3 = Change the front support

Please advice

Thanks

John

[J_Speegle]

Hmmm - good questions.

Here is what I would do.

1- Find pictures from old Mustang Monthly of the Pace cars that have been featured in that magazine. Not that I would trust everything I saw in the pictures/restoration it would be where I started. If you find pictures with not similar modifications or not it would give you some possible reasons to go one way or the other.

2- Lacking any confirmation that the same was done to any of the others I would make them go away. JUST ME. I could always add them back if it was confirmed or additional support information came along later. Make some patterns and take allot of better pictures before you do anything

3- To make them go away I would only replace the metal isn that small area so as to not disturb the factory attachment welds from the radiator support to the rest of the car and maintain factory stamping dates on the panel.

Just me based on what you've provided at this point.  Let see what others would do in the same situation

Good luck with your choice

[JohnRB]

Hmmm - good questions.

Here is what I would do.

1- Find pictures from old Mustang Monthly of the Pace cars that have been featured in that magazine. Not that I would trust everything I saw in the pictures/restoration it would be where I started. If you find pictures with not similar modifications or not it would give you some possible reasons to go one way or the other.

2- Lacking any confirmation that the same was done to any of the others I would make them go away. JUST ME. I could always add them back if it was confirmed or additional support information came along later. Make some patterns and take allot of better pictures before you do anything

3- To make them go away I would only replace the metal isn that small area so as to not disturb the factory attachment welds from the radiator support to the rest of the car and maintain factory stamping dates on the panel.

Just me based on what you've provided at this point.  Let see what others would do in the same situation

Good luck with your choice

1. Already tried that  Many years ago I even was in B. Weiss garage and took a lot of pics of his Atlanta Pace Car convertible. However, I did not take any pics of that area, and can not remember anything unusual either. The Atlanta car has later changed hands a few times, and I am not able to contact the new owner. Has also heard that the current owner also owns the Michigan Pace Car Convertible.

The Eastern Pace Car was reportedly for sale in or around 2000. Never seen again.

The Texas Pace car is reportedly in or around Louisiana. Never seen it.

Only other option is the Pace Car Mach 1 they also made.

2/3. Has been thinking going that route but not completely sure because of those grinding marks in the front support.

Thanks

John

[WT8095]

Have you seen this photo? The article makes it sound like it's one of the pace convertibles, but I'm not entirely sure.

From: http://www.hemmings.com/users/36460/ride/1759.html

Just my opinion: because you have a special case where you know non-standard preparation was done, I would not change things unless you can prove they're not original. That's kind of the opposite of a normal restoration. The reason I would do that is because, as someone has in their signature here, "it's only ever original once". If you change it, then find out you were wrong, then you have to recreate it, it's not really original anymore.

[JohnRB]

Have you seen this photo? The article makes it sound like it's one of the pace convertibles, but I'm not entirely sure.

From: http://www.hemmings.com/users/36460/ride/1759.html

Just my opinion: because you have a special case where you know non-standard preparation was done, I would not change things unless you can prove they're not original. That's kind of the opposite of a normal restoration. The reason I would do that is because, as someone has in their signature here, "it's only ever original once". If you change it, then find out you were wrong, then you have to recreate it, it's not really original anymore.

That car is not one of the Pace Cars. Main reason is that`s a Q code/ standard interior. Remember they only made 5 Pace Car convertibles.

See http://www.ponysite.de/index.htm for more info about them.

Your opinion  is valid, but what should I do?
Reason that I ask is that the holes are a little crudely made, and most other modifications/alterations are somewhat neat.

See https://www.428cobrajet.org/forum/index.php?topic=23002.0;all for some other modification done to it.

On top of that sitting in Europe does not exactly make it any easier either


Thanks

John

[WT8095]

Have you seen Brad Bowling & Jerry Heasley's book "Mustang Special Editions" from 2006? It has photos of the Michigan car, and lists the owner (at the time) as Gary Pietraniec.

https://books.google.com/books?id=8DyhS5BJySwC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=ford+%22i+r+building%22+garage&source=bl&ots=yQnv7aQOZT&sig=HVHPj7mbV0gxoBVKKBF-oN0wTSg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFleaqwcrKAhWFVD4KHT_JDW4Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=ford%20%22i%20r%20building%22%20garage&f=false

[J_Speegle]

1. Already tried that  ...............

So the MM pictures didn't show a picture of the radiator support?   I looked at my pictures and didn't take one of that area either

2/3. Has been thinking going that route but not completely sure because of those grinding marks in the front support.

What grinding marks?  Can't make any out in the picture just the ugly holes hacked in the support. IF you left the holes then you'll have to figure out if you'll have to restore that area with some rattle can black or leave the edges and such bare steel as if they were just cut and left unfinished - a possibility if they were done the way you believe they were.

Don't think your at that great of a disadvantage compared to being in the US.  The internet expands your reach allot and it will just take some luck to make contact with one or two people that can help out. 

[JohnRB]

Have you seen Brad Bowling & Jerry Heasley's book "Mustang Special Editions" from 2006? It has photos of the Michigan car, and lists the owner (at the time) as Gary Pietraniec.

https://books.google.com/books?id=8DyhS5BJySwC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=ford+%22i+r+building%22+garage&source=bl&ots=yQnv7aQOZT&sig=HVHPj7mbV0gxoBVKKBF-oN0wTSg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFleaqwcrKAhWFVD4KHT_JDW4Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=ford%20%22i%20r%20building%22%20garage&f=false

No, has not seen that one before.

Do have some pics of the Michigan Pace car but they do not cover that area of the front support

See http://www.ponysite.de/pony/ariregistry.htm for more info.

John

[JohnRB]

So the MM pictures didn't show a picture of the radiator support?   I looked at my pictures and didn't take one of that area either

What grinding marks?  Can't make any out in the picture just the ugly holes hacked in the support. IF you left the holes then you'll have to figure out if you'll have to restore that area with some rattle can black or leave the edges and such bare steel as if they were just cut and left unfinished - a possibility if they were done the way you believe they were.

Don't think your at that great of a disadvantage compared to being in the US.  The internet expands your reach allot and it will just take some luck to make contact with one or two people that can help out.

Grinding marks. The PO has used an angle grinder on some areas of the support (hard to see in the pics), and that has left some nasty stripes in the steel! Not sure how to repair that. Might use some lead to smooth it out. Has been thinking, could the holes has something with that the car has AC and they added the oil cooler "of the assembly line"? Might be some narrow routing for the cooler lines there! Just a thought.

Being in Europe means less untouched original cars to look at! Even parts/shipping is $$$$ ....

Thanks

John

[WT8095]

No, has not seen that one before.

Do have some pics of the Michigan Pace car but they do not cover that area of the front support

See http://www.ponysite.de/pony/ariregistry.htm for more info.

John

The photos are credited to Jerry Heasley - maybe you could contact him to see if he has additional photos that weren't published, or perhaps he knows the current owner. I came across the link in a Google search, using the terms "I R Building" and "IR Building". You could try searching along those lines to see if you get a few more leads.

I didn't mention ponysite.de because I assumed you knew all about it     They do have some interesting information.

[JohnRB]

The photos are credited to Jerry Heasley - maybe you could contact him to see if he has additional photos that weren't published, or perhaps he knows the current owner. I came across the link in a Google search, using the terms "I R Building" and "IR Building". You could try searching along those lines to see if you get a few more leads.

Done it for years 

I didn't mention ponysite.de because I assumed you knew all about it     They do have some interesting information.

Yes, do know about it  A lot of that info came from me, and the site was a "joint venture" with Wolfgang Korhn who runs ponysite.de.

John

[JohnRB]

BTW Does anyone have a current email address for Jerry Heasley?

Thanks

John

[Armond]

Hi John!   I look at that and it looks like it was done very poorly, so I would put the odds at it being done by a prior owner.  Jerry's email is  jerryheasley@gmail.com  Unless that changed.    Good luck! Armond

[JohnRB]

Hi John!   I look at that and it looks like it was done very poorly, so I would put the odds at it being done by a prior owner.  Jerry's email is  jerryheasley@gmail.com  Unless that changed.    Good luck! Armond

Armond

Got an email from Jerry. Working on it.

Thanks.

John