Topic: Need some help identifying a 1965 coupe

[slipkid]

I have recently purchased a rotissiere restored 65 Mustang.  VIN 5T07A133430.  The car is set up as a GT.  Key characteristics - it has the factory half moon in the dash for the 5 dial cluster. It has the factory spot welded sheet metal reinforcement under the backseat.  What it doesn't have is the dual exhaust hangar setup in the rear frame rails - it is a single bolt transverse mount system.  I've attached pics of the half moon, reinforcement and the car itself.  It's got all the usual GT stuff - fogs, discs, etc.  The build date is important - it is a Metuchen car dated February 8th.  Metuchen began production of Mustangs on February 1st.  I'm looking for help/advice to determine what this car really is....thanks

[CharlesTurner]

You will have to do a complete examination of the unibody and document all the sheet metal date codes.  This will help give you a better idea of when the car was actually produced.

One thing I noticed in the rear floor picture is that the seam sealer over the hump does not extend onto the reinforcement plates.  Of course, we have seen some weird things on early Metuchen GT's before.  Although, I don't believe that a transverse dual exhaust system was ever used at Metuchen as it would have been phased out around October/November of '64 at San Jose and Dearborn.  The earliest K codes and/or A code GT's may have had Arvinode systems installed for a very short period in initial Metuchen production.  The hi-po registry may help in determining the earliest known K code at Metuchen to possibly help answer this question.  If your car did indeed have an Arvinode system, this would explain the absence of the rear frame rail reinforcements as they were not installed with that system.  If you have pictures of the rear frame rails, that would help answer that question.

Does the car have a buck tag?  Did you find a build sheet taped to the main wiring harness?  Have a picture of the original door data plate?

[slipkid]

Charles - thanks for the informative reply.  Here's the door data plate and a pic of the rear frame rails - there's a dual exhaust setup using only a single bolt because that's all that is there....  There is no buck tag nor any hole nor dimple for the buck tag screw.  VIN's match in ll 3 locations.  I'll look for the build sheet but the restorer said he found nothing but thanks for the wiring harness tip

[CharlesTurner]

The bolt going through the rear frame rail for the exhaust bracket in your pic is actually mounted through the hole that would be used to attach the rear tie down plates.  The Arvinode hanger would have attached a little further up the frame rail.  If you could get a picture of that area, would help better.  One of the other side would also be helpful.  I suppose your car does have the square corner snubber plate that is most commonly known for being on K codes (but actually used on A code GT's too.)

The absence of the buck tag is good as it wasn't used until later in Metuchen production.  Your door plate looks legit.

[ChrisV289]

Charles,

What is that little G in the lower right hand corner of the dataplate?  I've seen that before on another car...

[CharlesTurner]

Charles,

What is that little G in the lower right hand corner of the dataplate?  I've seen that before on another car...

It's just one of several varieties of original door plates that we see.

[carlite65]

i would recommend getting a copy of the 'tagbook' by kevin marti. it explains a lot.  http://www.martiauto.com

[slipkid]

Charles - here are some more pics - I had to look pretty far forward down the rail to see anything - there are 2 bolt holes on the inside face of each rail - the driver side is in a horizontal arrangement and the passenger side is vertical.  Thanks for your informed responses.  Rob

[slipkid]

Here are some more pics - backside of instrument cluster and the fog switch.  Thanks, Rob

[CharlesTurner]

Those rear frame rail holes/sleeves are not consistent with the original Arvin locations I was referring to.  They actually look like single exhaust locations.  Your snubber plate is also the single exhaust style.  Here's a pic of where the rear hanger should be located for an Arvin system:  http://www.early-mustang.com/charles/K_vert/7_13/7_13_05%20019.jpg

I still would not completely discount your car not being a GT, but things are starting to look a little suspicious.

On the dash, keep in mind that it wouldn't be completely unheard of for the entire piece to be replaced.  There is usually a date stamp on the bottom edge that is most times reasonably close to the scheduled build date.  You could also make sure that it isn't a '66 dash as there would be tell-tale signs of the dash mounting holes welded up to make it correct for a '65.

One other thing I happened to notice was the placement of the GT badge on the LH fender.  Hard to tell from the picture, but it appears the badge is located a little too far back.

[slipkid]

Charles - it feels food, real good, to finally get some clarity on this.  One more thing regarding your link to the Arvin mounting location - my car does have a bolt hole location there (it can be seen in the j-peg titled "rearframe".  Mine is a single hole only, on both sides.  What's that for?  Thanks much - I bought this car as an A code 4 speed and this GT stuff has been lingering around.....now it finally goes away!

[CharlesTurner]

As I said, I wouldn't completely rule it out just yet, but things are not stacking favorably for the car being a real GT at this point.  I guess I should also point out, though, that the fog light switch on the early GT cars was typically located on the bottom edge of the dash.

That extra hole in the rear is the 2nd attachment for the rear tie down plates.  Should be there on all models.

So long as you didn't pay a premium for the car being a GT, sounds like you can still be satisfied with what you have.

[slipkid]

I paid 15k for it - it's new from bottom to top.  Engine rebuild, toploader (close ratio) rebuild, new clutch, sandblasted, repainted, new interior, new brakes, brake lines, shocks, weatherstripping, heater core, etc, right down to Autolite BF-42 spark plugs.  Car is impressive underneath as well as the engine bay and the interior.  I only looked at the price in terms of what 15k was buying me.  It was never advertised as a GT - only as an A code 4 speed.  The only thing the restorer said was that the fog light wiring looked original....I felt that 15k was a fair price for what I was getting.  Half the fun of owning the car is stuff like this.  Thanks again Charles for wrapping this up quickly nad clearly.

[slipkid]

....I was fairly confident that the back end exhaust did not jive with a GT but the half moon and the underseat reinforcement just kept throwing me for a loop.....

[slipkid]

Charles - I looked under the dash for markings.  At the bottom section of the dash, below the ashtray is 3-24-C3.  Not sure of the last 2 (C3) - stamping is tough to make out.  A liitle past that number, towards the glovebox, are two numbers - 36.

Can you tell me what these mean?  Thanks, Rob