Topic: 1965 DEALER INSTALLED GT PACKAGE

[jwc66k]

I can tell you that I have a 65 coupe that was built on 1-8-65 and delivered to the first owner on 1-12-65 from Hughson Ford Sales in San Francisco that was equipped with a GT package by Hughson Ford Sales, prior to the factory built GT's which weren't available until March or April of 65 I believe. It was owned by the original family for 46 years. I'm the third owner but I have the paperwork and the "make your Mustang into a GT" sales brochure that was stamped by Hughson Ford Sales. The parts were available prior to factory production. The only part I'm missing is the gauge package.

All quite possible. Heavy duty suspension, quick steering, fog lights and disc brakes were all bolt on options available at dealers. Dual exhaust systems, except for "K" codes, were by necessity, welded in place. At that early date, I don't believe Ford had a "H" pipe available off the shelf except, again, for "K" codes, and for that "H" pipe you needed the "K" exhaust manifolds. Body work was required to make the front fenders GT types, different holes for letters and emblems. The question I have is how much of the GT package was actually installed, and when? Other questions are: were the rocker panel moldings removed, did the rear valence have the trim rings for the trumpet tips, did the strips have MUSTANG letters in them at the fenders? As Jeff and others have said, it was done a lot in garages and shops, and kits were available.
Jim 

[sgl66]

Other questions are: were the rocker panel moldings removed, did the rear valence have the trim rings for the trumpet tips, did the strips have MUSTANG letters in them at the fenders? As Jeff and others have said, it was done a lot in garages and shops, and kits were available.
Jim

+1

I don't recall seeing a documented "dealer GT" yet ( but I'm sure there are others)

In addition to what what Jim said, I would be interested to know how the back of the light bars are cast. Do they appear the same as assembly line parts with a FoMoCo stamp? The reason I ask is I have a set packed away somewhere with the Ford part # but no FoMoco stamp. Have wondered for many years what they are.

[J_Speegle]

............ The parts were available prior to factory production. The only part I'm missing is the gauge package..........

IMHO a lot of conjecture especially given that your not the original owner. Do you have an original sales receipt from the original car sale and where it the proof that the parts were available in Jan 65?  Haven't seen a price list with a Jan date with those parts listed for sale.  Maybe a later conversion but in all these years have not run across any paperwork that has support this sort of story. Though we've had a few pop up at shows and the internet none have been able to support the belief. Oddest one was a claim that their car had rocker molding installed on their GT. In that case they were able to produce original paperwork showing on the day of the sale there was a charge.

Have seen a couple of examples of paperwork that was faked attempting to support claims (different years and models)  so those didn't get far.

To support your belief there would be charges for reworking the fenders, repainting the car ....... Would love to see the paperwork if you have it.

Sorry but we hear allot of claims but rarely anything to support them.

Not sure where these "others" are. One would think that someone in the area would have run across them over the last 50 years.

Know that Hughson in San Francisco or Hughson, CA was the first Ford dealership but don't recall selling allot of Mustangs sold through them Maybe some of the bay area folks will recall seeing the licence plate frame more than I have in the last 50 years.

http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/San-Francisco/hughson-ford-co/40255636.aspx

[69cobrajetrugae2]

Interesting history on the car Kiki.

Jeff.  The year on my engine date code bled, the circle screw head is breached on that side. The rest is D13. The year looks like a 5.

 When I restored the engine compartment most of the sheet metal was April 17, 13, 19, 11, D1 or D3, I can't recall any D2 parts. There are dates on everything! The battery tray is original and is dated 11-68 and a few other parts are dated before April. The car was born in San Jose, early June 69.

Is there a good chance that I have the original engine in the car?

[kik]

All quite possible. Heavy duty suspension, quick steering, fog lights and disc brakes were all bolt on options available at dealers. Dual exhaust systems, except for "K" codes, were by necessity, welded in place. At that early date, I don't believe Ford had a "H" pipe available off the shelf except, again, for "K" codes, and for that "H" pipe you needed the "K" exhaust manifolds. Body work was required to make the front fenders GT types, different holes for letters and emblems. The question I have is how much of the GT package was actually installed, and when? Other questions are: were the rocker panel moldings removed, did the rear valence have the trim rings for the trumpet tips, did the strips have MUSTANG letters in them at the fenders? As Jeff and others have said, it was done a lot in garages and shops, and kits were available.
Jim

I have paperwork as far as the actual sale from Hughson Ford Sales to the original family's mother. Unfortunately, I don't have paperwork indicating any type of conversion. I'm just going by what the family indicated, that their mother saw it and made the purchase. It has front disk brakes, fogs, grill, the appropriate emblems, no rocker panel moldings. It has trim rings for the trumpet tips. I have no reason not to believe the family but obviously I can't document it with paperwork which I guess is common and unfortunate at the same time. It's a clean, rust free, low mileage Mustang so I'll keep driving and enjoying it. Since it was built on the 8th and delivered to the owner on the 12th, I don't know whether that would be too quick a turn around time for a dealer to do bodywork, paint and mechanical. Again,  the family seemed credible but either way I have a low mileage, nicely restored Mustang. Thank you all for the info.

[Bob Gaines]

I have paperwork as far as the actual sale from Hughson Ford Sales to the original family's mother. Unfortunately, I don't have paperwork indicating any type of conversion. I'm just going by what the family indicated, that their mother saw it and made the purchase. It has front disk brakes, fogs, grill, the appropriate emblems, no rocker panel moldings. It has trim rings for the trumpet tips. I have no reason not to believe the family but obviously I can't document it with paperwork which I guess is common and unfortunate at the same time. It's a clean, rust free, low mileage Mustang so I'll keep driving and enjoying it. Since it was built on the 8th and delivered to the owner on the 12th, I don't know whether that would be too quick a turn around time for a dealer to do bodywork, paint and mechanical. Again,  the family seemed credible but either way I have a low mileage, nicely restored Mustang. Thank you all for the info.

You would think that this "GT" conversion would add a substantial amount to the final total price . Dealers were not known for giving away labor and parts . If you know the final price and compare that to other like optioned cars somehow there should be a substantial higher price on the "GT" converted car. If you are able to document difference in amounts it may help justify the "GT" change for some of us who require out the ordinary evidence to support a out of the ordinary claim. That is only relevant if you are trying to convince others  . We have all heard many stories before without a shred other then here say to back it up.

[J_Speegle]

..............Since it was built on the 8th and delivered to the owner on the 12th, I don't know whether that would be too quick a turn around time for a dealer to do bodywork, paint and mechanical. ......

Where are you getting the 8th?  If from the door tag that was a date guessed in the office months before the car was built (when the order reached the assembly plant).  SO you might have a larger gap - not that it proves anything

.............Again,  the family seemed credible but either way I have a low mileage, nicely restored Mustang. .........

Yes they try their hardest and most are the nicest people. Unfortunately (from experience) their memories isn't as good as it might be. Way too many stories about forgotten repaints, touch ups, parts replaced and other things done to otherwise one owner, unrestored cars even 30 years ago

Have fun -enjoy the car

Maybe we'll run across one another at some point and I get to look at it.

[69cobrajetrugae2]

Thanks for all your replies to my topic. I've learned a lot as always.

I know about the tube in the rear frame rail as one of the solid indicators that a car is the real deal GT.  The car in question is a C code and has had a partial GT dress kit installed, but the rear frame rails have two small holes which what appears to have a tube inside.  I have not had a chance to be with the car since we acquired it and check it out, I have a video and we will look for the shot of it and post it when I can.

 The GT that we acquired last year had a larger hole with the tube but not two smaller ones, I use bent safety wire to confirm it had a tube in there.  What's the deal with the tubes?  Did non GT cars have tubes?  I read that 1 or 2 percent percent of 65 and 66 cars we're GT cars.  What increase in value does the GT package add to a A or K code Mustang?

Back to Jeff's suggestion to look at the date codes on the carlite glass.

One of our Mustangs, the original Carlite glass has a date code 6 weeks after the day the car was born!  The glass may have come from a salvage yard or from Ford dealer inventory.  The replacement could have been installed before it was sold if was sold as a result of transport damage or vandalism for example, or damage that occurred months or years later.

On close examination of the car and the side in which the late date glass is located, there appears to be damage that was repaired. The windshield molding isn't quite right in terms of fitment quality, and other small details which went unnoticed by myself.

 The car was delivered new to the Seattle District, so my assumption based on all the available evidence is that a mean tree branch smacked somebody's baby.  If I would have discovered this information before I purchased the car I would have still bought it, and it doesn't indicate that it's a bad car, but I would have looked further into frame damage which fortunately there doesn't appear to be any.

 One of our other cars, a 66 vert, has 15K original miles and all the carlite is coded within 60 days of each other.  That is something that I would expect in terms of date codes since Ford was on target to make a million of them before the introduction of the 67 models.

I also learned that rocker panels are the same part on all mustangs at least through late 1969.  I think I remember seeing a rocker date code of 63 on one of our cars, and I have seen 65 on a 1969 Mustang.

 

[sgl66]

I know about the tube in the rear frame rail as one of the solid indicators that a car is the real deal GT.  The car in question is a C code and has had a partial GT dress kit installed, but the rear frame rails have two small holes which what appears to have a tube inside.

A word of caution, those crush tubes used to be a good indicator of a factory dual exhaust car but not necessarily a GT. The reason I say "used to be" is that these are now on the repo market as are a lot of the other parts that were not available 5-10 years ago. A higher level of dilligence is required these days to look at all the collective pieces including how they are installed to come to an informed conclusion.

I have also read that a buyer could order dual exhaust on a 2v car back in the day...source was Tony Gregory's book for what its worth.

[rocket289k]

I have also read that a buyer could order dual exhaust on a 2v car back in the day...source was Tony Gregory's book for what its worth.

To best of my knowledge factory dual exhaust was only available with on K Code OR factory ordered GT equipped cars (A Code or K Code).  All non-GT "A" codes came from the factory with single exhaust.  "C" codes also only came from the factory with single exhaust.  Non GT "A" codes and "C" codes could not be factory ordered with dual exhaust. 

Regards,

Ron

[J_Speegle]

.................The GT that we acquired last year had a larger hole with the tube but not two smaller ones, I use bent safety wire to confirm it had a tube in there.  What's the deal with the tubes?  Did non GT cars have tubes? .........

As mentioned yes some non GT cars had the frame reinforcements - factory dual exhaust cars.  But you seem to be describing different findings where one or both may be unoriginal. The reinforcement can normally be felt by inserting a small figure into the rear dolly holes and touching the reinforcement forward and rearward of the hole.

One of our Mustangs, the original Carlite glass has a date code 6 weeks after the day the car was born!  The glass may have come from a salvage yard or from Ford dealer inventory.  The replacement could have been installed before it was sold if was sold as a result of transport damage or vandalism for example, or damage that occurred months or years later.

On close examination of the car and the side in which the late date glass is located, there appears to be damage that was repaired. The windshield molding isn't quite right in terms of fitment quality, and other small details which went unnoticed by myself.

Kind of getting off thread and discussion with this car and that car's information being mixed in to the discussion. Going to make it a little hard to follow for many. Just a though. But the "6 weeks after the day the car was born" is a misstatement of facts as has been mentioned.  The date on the door is the "guessed" date of when it might be finished.

The damage and the later date window does possibly suggest that the car experienced a very early accident and a new replacement window was purchase resulting in that close but odd date.

I also learned that rocker panels are the same part on all mustangs at least through late 1969.  I think I remember seeing a rocker date code of 63 on one of our cars, and I have seen 65 on a 1969 Mustang.

Believe you will find that is not the date could but instead a numbering system to identify the rocker panel.  Some years that stamping and the date code are two different sizes and font styles

[WT8095]

I also learned that rocker panels are the same part on all mustangs at least through late 1969.  I think I remember seeing a rocker date code of 63 on one of our cars, and I have seen 65 on a 1969 Mustang.

Not a date code, as Jeff stated. Most likely related to the bodystyle. The basic part number for all body parts is preceded by the body code, for Mustang that's 63, 65 or 76. This will not always match the car it's being used on - for example a "65" part may apply to coupe and fastback, or it may work for all three body styles. I'm not familiar with how and when (even IF) these were put on various stamped pieces, but I'm pretty sure that's what they're related to.

Per the '75 MPC, rocker panels were different for each of the first four generations.