Topic: Need help identifying correct snorkel for 68 390

[J_Speegle]

8R01S108459 from a recent auction. A few things like plug wires and hoses have been replaced, and the smog parts are gone, but the wear on the air cleaner is consistent with the rest of the engine compartment.

Interesting that its got a painted lid. Wonder if its from a donor car - looks like someone did a few things to the engine in the past and the original one air cleaner might have been tossed when the Thermactor system, S tube and heat shield were. 

Just a possibility

[WT8095]

Interesting that its got a painted lid. Wonder if its from a donor car - looks like someone did a few things to the engine in the past and the original one air cleaner might have been tossed when the Thermactor system, S tube and heat shield were. 

Just a possibility

I don't think the lid is painted. The flat ring is at just the right angle to reflect the black from the underside of the hood. There's a little bit visible in this photo.

[WT8095]

Here's a few X-code snorkels for comparison. The first one is from 8R02X153177, I don't know the VINs for the other two.

[J_Speegle]

I don't think the lid is painted. The flat ring is at just the right angle to reflect the black from the underside of the hood. There's a little bit visible in this photo.

Well since you have other pictures yes I would agree from this angle

[WT8095]

Well since you have other pictures yes I would agree from this angle

I had to study it real carefully, it looked painted to me at first too.

From the way the discussion is going, and from other photos I've seen and discussions on other boards, it appears that two different snorkels were used on S code motors in '68. Would you agree? I'm putting together a post that will illustrate the way Ford documented it and which snorkel they apparently intended to use, but it looks like a change or substitution occurred. I haven't seen enough yet to speculate on a timeline or what plant(s) did what. Any thoughts?

[WT8095]

Here's what the 1968 Chassis Assembly manual shows. It is not dated, but I suspect it predates the '68 model year by several months or more. So it may or may not reflect what was actually done on the assembly lines.

There are two pages for 390 engines, one for 2V engines for Cougar, and one for 4V for Mustang & Cougar. There is no entry for 2V for Mustang - possibly indicating that the decision to add the X code motor to Mustangs was made after this document was prepared. The table summarizes information from the two pages, and I have included a clipping of the 4V page. Based on this information, at the time the manual was published, it appears that Ford intended 2V engines to receive the forward-bent (C8WY) snorkel, and 4V engines to receive the rearward-bent (C8OF) snorkels. Jeff's photos strongly suggest that something else happened on the line(s).

One interesting thing to note is that the same heat shield and S-tube are called out for BOTH snorkel designs. This seems to indicate one of two things:

• that Ford engineering considered the "clocking" of the air cleaner to be within acceptable limits when either snorkel was used
• or the snorkel mounting location was slightly different between the C8AF and C8OF air cleaner bases

[E35Pilot]

Wow, this is just crazy.  It almost seems it would be impossible to definitively come to any agreed upon conclusion.  I recall Jeff even mentioned he did in fact have other pictures showing the rear offset snorkel on other 390s.  So, this prompts two questions:

1. Are there any SJ assembly line pictures that possibly show rear/forward off set snorkels?
2. For our concourse judges (or others with show deduction experience), should a 68 390 expect to receive any deductions for a forward verses a rear off set snorkel...all other other things being equal?

[J_Speegle]

I had to study it real carefully, it looked painted to me at first too.

From the way the discussion is going, and from other photos I've seen and discussions on other boards, it appears that two different snorkels were used on S code motors in '68. Would you agree? ...............

Right now (hasn't improved since the last time I looked at the subject) IMHO I'm not ready to draw any conclusions

Here's what the 1968 Chassis Assembly manual shows. It is not dated, but I suspect it predates the '68 model year by several months or more. So it may or may not reflect what was actually done on the assembly lines....................................

One interesting thing to note is that the same heat shield and S-tube are called out for BOTH snorkel designs. This seems to indicate one of two things:..................

Or that there was a mistake made on that page or a generic drawing was used to illustrate assembly practices. Would not be the first example/time

Wow, this is just crazy.  It almost seems it would be impossible to definitively come to any agreed upon conclusion.  I recall Jeff even mentioned he did in fact have other pictures showing the rear offset snorkel on other 390s.  So, this prompts two questions:

1. Are there any SJ assembly line pictures that possibly show rear/forward off set snorkels?

Believe all the San Jose shots that have been posted are of small block unfortunately

2. For our concourse judges (or others with show deduction experience), should a 68 390 expect to receive any deductions for a forward verses a rear off set snorkel...all other other things being equal?

As a judge I would ask the owner/builder where the air cleaner/snorkel came from on the car and currently I would be hard pressed to deduct for either (as long as the base matched the original design and the S tube fit over the connection on the bottom). In this way I could learn more to help, possibly, draw a conclusion in the future.  Think that is where we are right now - and until we can get to the bottom (if thee is one) of the subject or at least to a point were we feel comfortable

Just me

[E35Pilot]

As a judge I would ask the owner/builder where the air cleaner/snorkel came from on the car and currently I would be hard pressed to deduct for either (as long as the base matched the original design and the S tube fit over the connection on the bottom).

Well, I forgot about the issue of the s-tube fitting over the bottom opening of the snorkel, this is a good point.

However, since it appears there was no difference in the s-tube regardless of the offset, it seems to beg the question if all rear offset snorkels have an opening that the s-tube fits inside (like the one I have) and all forward offset snorkels have an opening that the s-tube fits over?

[J_Speegle]

Well, I forgot about the issue of the s-tube fitting over the bottom opening of the snorkel, this is a good point.

However, since it appears there was no difference in the s-tube regardless of the offset, it seems to beg the question if all rear offset snorkels have an opening that the s-tube fits inside (like the one I have) and all forward offset snorkels have an opening that the s-tube fits over?

"All" is a big reach IMHO. Know that I've had off set snorkels where the metal S tube fits over the snorkel opening. Believe the diameter is the same as the CJ S tubes

If you can provide the inside and outside Dia of your snorkel we might be able to compare that to other rear and forward facing snorkels with the bend.

Use to have a stack of them - since guys sometimes flip them over for other applications 

But not sure if they got tossed in the move.

[WT8095]

Here's a few photos of the rear-bend snorkel and S-tube I have. I acquired them separately, they did not come from the same car. FYI, the snorkel was repainted (badly), but the S-tube is still wearing original paint as far as I can tell.

The OD of the snorkel measures a bit over 2-13/16" (don't have my dial caliper handy), taken near the root of the tube, not the edge which is slightly wavy. The S-tube is a nice slip fit over the snorkel, I'd say less than .010" diametral clearance.

[WT8095]

Well, I forgot about the issue of the s-tube fitting over the bottom opening of the snorkel, this is a good point.

However, since it appears there was no difference in the s-tube regardless of the offset, it seems to beg the question if all rear offset snorkels have an opening that the s-tube fits inside (like the one I have) and all forward offset snorkels have an opening that the s-tube fits over?

You aren't referring to one of these, are you? The 1969 390 IP snorkel has a rear bend, and looks nearly identical to the 1968 rear bend snorkel, except for an additional step-down, to which a corrugated paper riser tube was attached. Photo from 428cobrajet.org.

I think the 1969 Boss 302 snorkel looks very similar, but I'm on thin ice there, as I know next to nothing about them! 

[E35Pilot]

Ok, let's take another look at the problem part.  I went out to the garage and took the cleaner and snorkel of the car....these are the pics.  The opening of the S-Tube is 2 ¾".  Note that there is a detent in the snorkel opening that perfectly fits the snorkel seem when installed.  What do you think?

[WT8095]

Ok, let's take another look at the problem part.  I went out to the garage and took the cleaner and snorkel of the car....these are the pics.  The opening of the S-Tube is 2 ¾".  Note that there is a detent in the snorkel opening that perfectly fits the snorkel seem when installed.  What do you think?

The seams on your S-tube do not extend to the top like the ones on mine. I measured the top diameter on mine, I'm getting 2-15/16" (I really need to run and get that caliper...).

[J_Speegle]

The seams on your S-tube do not extend to the top like the ones on mine. I measured the top diameter on mine, I'm getting 2-15/16" (I really need to run and get that caliper...).

S tube may be (my guess) a CJ S tube rather than a S code one.

Ok for my part tonight - went out to the trailer and found what may be a FE snorkel with the forward bend. Didn't locate a rearward and don't think I've had one of those.

Took a little work (the snorkel opening wasn't exactly nice and perfect but did get the S tube ( a 428 CJ one I had on the shelf) over the snorkel end. Was a snug fit much more than many of my other cars but no way was it going inside as far as I was willing to force and reshape the metal opening

The inside of the S tube and the OD of the snorkel measure somewhere around 2-3/4" and 2 13/16"
















Note: I have no idea of what car or application this snorkel came off of