Topic: 1967 Wheels

[196667Bob]

One of my Mustangs is a 1967 Convertible that was built on January 31 (a Tuesday), 1967 at the Dearborn Plant. Through the Marti Report for it, it was ordered with the F70-14 Wide Ovals. According to the Sales Brochures and Price Books, the Wide Ovals came with 6" wheels. I just had my tires unmounted so I could have the wheels sand blasted before painting, and found that only two of them were the 6" wheels and the other 3 were 5" ; yet all are correctly dated January of 1967 ("7MA").
I have documentation that the original owner who ordered the car had it at least until 1976. My Dad purchased the car in 1981, and was told by the person he bought it from that he was selling it for the original owner (I am currently trying to verify this through the DMV). I then got the car from my Dad in 1991.
The point here is that I find it extremely unlikely that the previous owner(s ?) before my Dad could have replaced 3 of the 6" wheels with 5" wheels of the correct date. Could something like this (2-6" and 3-5" wheels) really have occurred on the Assembly Line ?

Any insight will be appreciated.

Bob

[rodster]

The interesting part is all the wheels have the correct date code.  Even if 2 wheels needed replaced prior to 1981, I doubt date codes would have been of importance back then?

Very odd indeed.

[Bob Gaines]

One of my Mustangs is a 1967 Convertible that was built on January 31 (a Tuesday), 1967 at the Dearborn Plant. Through the Marti Report for it, it was ordered with the F70-14 Wide Ovals. According to the Sales Brochures and Price Books, the Wide Ovals came with 6" wheels. I just had my tires unmounted so I could have the wheels sand blasted before painting, and found that only two of them were the 6" wheels and the other 3 were 5" ; yet all are correctly dated January of 1967 ("7MA").
I have documentation that the original owner who ordered the car had it at least until 1976. My Dad purchased the car in 1981, and was told by the person he bought it from that he was selling it for the original owner (I am currently trying to verify this through the DMV). I then got the car from my Dad in 1991.
The point here is that I find it extremely unlikely that the previous owner(s ?) before my Dad could have replaced 3 of the 6" wheels with 5" wheels of the correct date. Could something like this (2-6" and 3-5" wheels) really have occurred on the Assembly Line ?

Any insight will be appreciated.

Bob

Just as important of a question is, do you want to be "that guy" with the mismatched steel wheels (regardless of if factory mistake or not) ? Or do you want to put the world right as it pertains to your car and outfit your car the way it was intended to be made without the mistake. Not a incorrect answer here IMHO just choices.     

[67gtasanjose]

My vote is that somewhere the date codes just happened to land right and the wheels have been replaced.

If you knew the typical roads of the 60's and 70's, the hard tires used of the day, it isn't far-fetched that a few wheels were bent and a junkyard donor supplied a couple of date correct wheels by happenstance.

AND I agree with BG, I would get the correct wheels.

[196667Bob]

I appreciate all of your insights and replies. Choices is correct. Believe me, I have been weighing them. While I want this car to be as concours correct as possible, it is going to be a "Driven" car. Based on what I've heard about the Repo Wide Ovals, I don't think I'm going to go that route. In addition, I can't imagine that there were that many non-GT '67's that were ordered with Wide Ovals, much less that were built in January, which to me will make it almost impossible to find 3 - 6" wheels dated "7MA". As a matter of fact, I'm guessing that I'll have a hard time just finding one 5" wheel dated "7MA", in order to give me "Four for the Road" of the same size and date (yes, I'm sure I can find one with "7M", but the "A" won't be easy. I figure I'll put one of the 6" wheels with either an original Wide Oval or a Repo if necessary, just to keep the "original flair" for the spare in the trunk.

I find it very hard to agree that "happenstance" resulted in 3 of the original 6" wheels having been damaged at the same time as there is no evidence of any structural damage ever having occurred on this car; and even harder to believe that "happenstance" resulted in a junk yard having 3 of the correct dated wheels as replacements. As rodster noted, I doubt date codes would have been of importance back then".
As far as knowing the "typical roads of  the 60's and 70's", I do. I started driving (at least legally) in 1962. My car was ordered by a Dealer in the Suburb of St. Louis where I grew up and lived until 1979, so I am very familiar with the roads in the area (especially so since I started my career as a Design Engineer for the Missouri Highway Department in the same suburb, and it included 10 counties around St. Louis).  As far as I can tell (unless the MO DMV come back with something different for 1976-1981), my car spent all its life in St. Louis County until I got it from my Dad in 1991. So, I really doubt that roads were an issue for destroying 3 wheels.  While I am not a "Statistician", I am an Engineer, and find the probability of 3 wheels being damaged and being replaced by 3 wheels of the correct date, extremely low, at least IMHO. Although granted, stranger things have happened.
Again, thanks for all of your input.

Bob

[67gtasanjose]

Sorry, no offense was intended, I thought it as a viable situation.

14 inch Ford wheels are 14 inch Ford wheels to a junkyard and having worked in the yards in the 70's to early 80's, I sold many a set of 4 wheels, pairs, one at a time, two at a time, three at a time, you name it. Nobody ever asked back then "How wide are they?", the most common question asked at the yards was "Does it have Disc Brakes or Drum?"

The happenstance was that somebody took 3 wheels from say a Falcon or a Comet or a base Mustang since there were say a gazillion of these things on the road in the day, one of these with stock tires that HAPPENED to be produced the same month as your car. That doesn't seem that unlikely to me but truth be told, I have no "horse" in this race so I'll concede to your car was built at the misfit toy factory. (seems less likely, but OK)

Yes, it is possible the factory ran out of the wheels and put 3 oddball 5" wheels on yours. One reason I find this difficult to believe is that I have heard it said (on this forum) that they did not generally build the cars till they had all the "right stuff" known to be in inventory which explains why the actual build date differs at times to the data plate build date. Since these 6 inch wheels would be "less than common" inventory, it doesn't seem logical that management would push the order through without enough on hand. They also say there are anomalies on this forum.

I suppose this is one of those "How many licks does it take to get to the center of the Tootsie Pop?" questions...the world may never know, none-the-less, I maintain, I'd still put what the car should have been built with onto it. Or at least begin the hunt.

[196667Bob]

No offense taken at all. If it sounded that way, I didn't mean for it to. I find it just as unlikely that the "mixup" happened at the Factory, although both scenarios are possible. Like you said, it's probably one of those things I'll never know. I am, however, going to try to track down the original owner the next time I'm in St. Louis (the end of October or early November to "meet" a new Grandson) to see what light he may be able to shed on things.
With my original Post, I was trying to see if the Assembly Line scenario was even a possibility.

Thanks again for your input.

Bob

[midlife]

What I don't understand is why when the tires were replaced that the mismatch wasn't noticed by the tire vendors/mechanics.  Yes, some tires can span a one inch difference in width, but they sure do mount differently. 

[196667Bob]

midlife : I've wondered the same thing. I know that when my Dad had the car, he put on at least one set of new tires, and in the 24 years that I've had possession of it, I've had at least two sets of new tires installed. I don't remember my Dad ever mentioning that an installer ever mentioned it to him, and I know that no one ever mentioned it to me. They were all probably more concerned about the age of the tires so they could justify (?) selling new ones.
This is a very good point though.

Bob

[67gtasanjose]

What I don't understand is why when the tires were replaced that the mismatch wasn't noticed by the tire vendors/mechanics.  Yes, some tires can span a one inch difference in width, but they sure do mount differently. 

I believe it is because many installers of tires today do not measure more than 1 wheel when balancing a tire.
I've been spin-balancing tires now for over 35 years and we ALWAYS measured every steel wheel back in the day because so many have slightly different offsets and the occasional anomaly of a mismatched wheel. Nowadays, so many cars are all mags (which ALWAYS measure out the same) and very minimal interchangeability between models that it is rare to find any diferences in one wheel to another on the same vehicle...most installers likely assume they are all the same and just burn through the installation and balancing.

[WT8095]

I appreciate all of your insights and replies. Choices is correct. Believe me, I have been weighing them. While I want this car to be as concours correct as possible, it is going to be a "Driven" car. Based on what I've heard about the Repo Wide Ovals, I don't think I'm going to go that route. In addition, I can't imagine that there were that many non-GT '67's that were ordered with Wide Ovals, much less that were built in January, which to me will make it almost impossible to find 3 - 6" wheels dated "7MA". As a matter of fact, I'm guessing that I'll have a hard time just finding one 5" wheel dated "7MA", in order to give me "Four for the Road" of the same size and date (yes, I'm sure I can find one with "7M", but the "A" won't be easy. I figure I'll put one of the 6" wheels with either an original Wide Oval or a Repo if necessary, just to keep the "original flair" for the spare in the trunk.

Note that whatever you decide is easily changed later. If you put together a matching set of 6" to meet "factory intent", or you go with 4x 5" + 6" spare, you can always change your mind and go back to "as delivered (suspected)". Document your investigation, and keep and label whichever wheel(s) you don't install. Much less stressful than deciding what to do about a factory welding error, for example.