Topic: '68 Starter Solenoid problems

[drummingrocks]

Very curious how you replate one of these solenoids.  How do you remove the top bracket?  Do you drill the rivets and remove and replate the bottom plate too?  Then how do you reattach these to look as if you hadn't worked on it?

Agreed, this is what's always stumped me about restoring an original.  I can't see any way to get the bracket off.

[J_Speegle]

.........I can't see any way to get the bracket off.

Think its the putting it back together is the issue.

Same thing here - one of those projects I would do if I could find more time in the day - especially since I've got a fair number of originals from all the pick-n-pull visits over the years.

[WT8095]

Very curious how you replate one of these solenoids.  How do you remove the top bracket?  Do you drill the rivets and remove and replate the bottom plate too?  Then how do you reattach these to look as if you hadn't worked on it?

You would have to remove the bottom plate, then remove the internal components, then drill out the rivet for the bracket. Reassembly would be the reverse order: rivet the bracket first, reassemble the insides, then attach the cover. Making it look like it wasn't worked on is a matter of having the correct dies to set the new rivets. The bottom plate is attached with tubular rivets, the dies for those are fairly simple and inexpensive. The bracket rivet may also be tubular (haven't torn one apart myself), but even if it's a solid rivet, it's a simple die. A small-to-medium arbor press should provide sufficient force. Disassembly is probably more of an issue than reassembly - have to be careful not to damage the housing, bracket or cover when drilling the rivets.

[67gtasanjose]

Here's a though...

Is anyone doing this "For Hire"? (hint-hint )

Getting "tooled up" seems to look more costly than simply paying a professional restorer to do it for you. Anyone needing the service can use a parts store solenoid while waiting for the service to be done.

[rockhouse66]

3 posters in this thread said they restored their own but no one has offered to share their technique.  I have had a couple restored by David Davis at DSD Restorations and they turned out great.  I do like to work on my own stuff though.

[Bob Gaines]

3 posters in this thread said they restored their own but no one has offered to share their technique.  I have had a couple restored by David Davis at DSD Restorations and they turned out great.  I do like to work on my own stuff though.

Is reply #17 not good enough?

[WT8095]

Is reply #17 not good enough?

Disclaimer: just to make it perfectly clear, I haven't actually done one myself. But looking at how it's put together, and with a few decades of manufacturing experience, it would seem to be pretty straightforward. So I hope my advice is good enough 

[mikelj5S230]

I have given a "correct" Autolite Chinese junk one and a reliable NAPA one to my electronics restorer to swap out the innards.  I will let you all know how he does and how much it costs.

[krelboyne]

Curiosity got the better of me. I had to crack open a beat up one.

Standard duty Ford starter solenoid on the left C7AF-11450-A1, Heavy duty solenoid on the right for comparison C7AF-11450-A3.


This is what they look like after the cover is removed on a standard duty starter solenoid.


These are the internal components. Had to break the copper strap to get the pieces apart. Looks like an advance project to rebuild to me.

[Bob Gaines]

Curiosity got the better of me. I had to crack open a beat up one.

Standard duty Ford starter solenoid on the left C7AF-11450-A1, Heavy duty solenoid on the right for comparison C7AF-11450-A3.


This is what they look like after the cover is removed on a standard duty starter solenoid.


These are the internal components. Had to break the copper strap to get the pieces apart. Looks like an advance project to rebuild to me.

I think that it is a misconception that the round one is heavy duty. I believe the insides are comparable . I believe it just another MFG. The round ones are hard to find . Be careful with that one.

[jwc66k]

I had a problem with a solenoid on a 66 289 I bought in 1988. When I took it apart (I drilled the rivets), I found the jumper strap from the internal copper disc to the terminal for the 12V to the coil was broke. It was braided copper, I assume for flexibility. The one shown in Scotts pictures has what appears to be a thin solid copper strap, a later version. The symptoms for the problem were the engine would crank, but would not start - no 12V direct to the coil from the solenoid. When you released the key from ignition, and the ignition switch dropped to run, there was enough voltage to the coil (9V), and enough spin left on the engine to get the car started. That was one of many "little" problems I had to attend with over the years. (Still got the car.)
Jim 

[67gtasanjose]

I had a problem with a solenoid on a 66 289 I bought in 1988. When I took it apart (I drilled the rivets), I found the jumper strap from the internal copper disc to the terminal for the 12V to the coil was broke. It was braided copper, I assume for flexibility. The one shown in Scotts pictures has what appears to be a thin solid copper strap, a later version. The symptoms for the problem were the engine would crank, but would not start - no 12V direct to the coil from the solenoid. When you released the key from ignition, and the ignition switch dropped to run, there was enough voltage to the coil (9V), and enough spin left on the engine to get the car started. That was one of many "little" problems I had to attend with over the years. (Still got the car.)
Jim

This reminds me of how EASY it is to HOTWIRE an old Ford! I suppose you could say how easy it is for a thief to be GONE in (less than) 60 seconds!

[WT8095]

There's a thread on the Boss 302 forum where user ONEOWNERAQUABOSS ("Rich"?) posted photos of a batch of solenoids he had rebuilt. The post was from 2013, so perhaps he's still in the business.

http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=62472.0

[67gtasanjose]

There's a thread on the Boss 302 forum where user ONEOWNERAQUABOSS ("Rich"?) posted photos of a batch of solenoids he had rebuilt. The post was from 2013, so perhaps he's still in the business.

http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=62472.0

Photo at the site is of the HEAVY DUTY variety solenoids. I was under the impression we were discussing the LIGHT DUTY here, maybe all similar at least in function, but not at all in overall construction.

and "Rich", (username at other site ONEOWNERAQUABOSS) gives out his recipe for rebuilding the HEAVY DUTY kind. It sounds a lot like the recipe for KFC's chicken   

[WT8095]

Photo at the site is of the HEAVY DUTY variety solenoids. I was under the impression we were discussing the LIGHT DUTY here, maybe all similar at least in function, but not at all in overall construction.

and "Rich", (username at other site ONEOWNERAQUABOSS) gives out his recipe for rebuilding the HEAVY DUTY kind. It sounds a lot like the recipe for KFC's chicken   

My intent was to provide a possible contact (pun intended) for someone who rebuilds solenoids. The discussion was about problems with solenoids and progressed to repair and rebuilding. Information that can help someone find a rebuilder seems perfectly relevant to the discussion.

FYI, as Bob pointed out, the end-terminal style are probably not "heavy duty". The A3 vs A1 suffix in the part numbers usually indicates a cosmetic difference between functionally equivalent parts, in this case between different suppliers as Bob explained.