Author Topic: Buying someone else's project car  (Read 4321 times)

Offline StretchMonster

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Buying someone else's project car
« on: August 21, 2015, 10:51:47 AM »
Hi,

I was wondering if I could get some other opinions on buying a car that I went to look at recently.  It is a '66 Mustang coupe, that's automatic with a 289 engine.  It is currently all in pieces, and I want to restore it.  The car itself, looks to be mostly rust free, and the engine and transmission are supposed to work.  The rest of the parts are there in theory, but I won't know until everything is spread out and inventoried.

I have seen the VIN, but what bothers me is that the car is missing the door tag.  I have no idea what options the car should have.

Is there a place I can find out what the car came with originally, or can I just decide what I want it to be?

Any thoughts?

Thank you,

Paul

Offline 67gta289

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2015, 11:35:37 AM »
Paul,

There is no "easy" conclusive method of finding out options/build information for pre 67 model year.  So you need to look at some clues.  Here are some that I can think of, others will chime in if I missed or glossed over something.

1. Is there a body buck tag?  Provide a picture and someone will interpret.
2. Look for the build sheet, probably the single best data source.  What plant was this car assembled?
3. For original exterior paint, look in places that would not normally be covered with "resale red" or similar.  Think under the weather stripping at the roof line, under the package tray from the trunk, floor pan under carpet, etc.
4. Engine tag.  Provide a picture and someone will interpret.  If the date code is correct, that gives some credence to it being an original 289 car (and not a conversion from the six cylinder).
5. Should probably look for other clues to make sure that it was not a six.  I've never owned a six so don't have these memorized.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
7R02C156xxx
MCA 74660

Offline StretchMonster

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2015, 01:55:37 PM »
Hi John,

Thanks for you reply, you had some good points.

****Stupid question alert*****

Where would I find the body buck tag, or the engine tag?  I have read that it should be on the front of the radiator support on the passenger side.

****OK, I'm done****

The car has had the floors, and quarters replaced.  It is currently white, with what looks to be a beige/tan interior, or at least the steering wheel is.  Since everything is out, finding the build sheet will be a challenge.  If I understand correctly, that's usually under the rear seat. 

The VIN that I have seen matches what is on the ownership.  It begins with 6F07C.  This translates, I believe to a 1966 Mustang, built in Dearborn, with bucket seats, at least from what I have found online. 

Thanks,

Paul

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2015, 02:39:25 PM »
Hi John,

Thanks for you reply, you had some good points.

****Stupid question alert*****

Where would I find the body buck tag, or the engine tag?  I have read that it should be on the front of the radiator support on the passenger side.

****OK, I'm done****

The car has had the floors, and quarters replaced.  It is currently white, with what looks to be a beige/tan interior, or at least the steering wheel is.  Since everything is out, finding the build sheet will be a challenge. If I understand correctly, that's usually under the rear seat. 

The VIN that I have seen matches what is on the ownership.  It begins with 6F07C.  This translates, I believe to a 1966 Mustang, built in Dearborn, with bucket seats, at least from what I have found online. 

Thanks,

Paul

Check on the underdash wiring harness, a copy is sometimes found wrapped around the harness
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2015, 02:46:35 PM »
I was wondering if I could get some other opinions on buying a car that I went to look at recently.  It is a '66 Mustang coupe, that's automatic with a 289 engine. 
I have seen the VIN, but what bothers me is that the car is missing the door tag.  I have no idea what options the car should have.
Paul,
  Welcome to the forum.
  In order to be more specific about early (64-73) Mustangs, we need a couple of bits of info - the VIN is the first. You may put "xx" in the last two numbers of the VIN for security purposes. Missing door data tags are almost a normal feature. It may be that the door was damaged and replaced but it's not the end of the information. The VIN itself gives clues to what the tag may have said, namely a close date that the car was scheduled to be built. A close look at the firewall on the LH side of the steering column will sometimes indicate if the car was came with an automatic transmission, no clutch hole, or a manual transmission. Lifting the door sill plate may give the original color and from that, possibly the interior color options. There are three locations for the permanent stamped VIN, all on fender aprons - the visible one on the LH side, one on the LH side usually hidden by the fender just ahead of the hood hinge, and on the RH side in about the same place. All three should match with your paperwork.
There is no "easy" conclusive method of finding out options/build information for pre 67 model year. 
For Mustangs and other Ford products, there is a document known as a Marti Report. It is available for 67 and newer cars.
1. Is there a body buck tag?  Provide a picture and someone will interpret.
These were used mostly at Metuchen, NJ.
2. Look for the build sheet, probably the single best data source.  What plant was this car assembled?
Mostly used at Metuchen, sometimes Dearborn, sometimes San Jose. If you find one, be careful, it's 50 years old.
4. Engine tag. Provide a picture and someone will interpret.  If the date code is correct, that gives some credence to it being an original 289 car (and not a conversion from the six cylinder).
 
The tag is usually attached to the intake manifold with a 3/8 bolt. It's usually tossed by a "well intentioned restorer".
5. Should probably look for other clues to make sure that it was not a six.  I've never owned a six so don't have these memorized.
Four lug wheels is the most obvious I-6 feature.
It begins with 6F07C.  This translates, I believe to a 1966 Mustang, built in Dearborn, with bucket seats, at least from what I have found online. 
The seat configuration is not part of the VIN but is on the door data tag.
The car has had the floors, and quarters replaced.  It is currently white, with what looks to be a beige/tan interior, or at least the steering wheel is.  Since everything is out, finding the build sheet will be a challenge.  If I understand correctly, that's usually under the rear seat. 
The floor and quarter replacement may be an indication that there was rust or accident damage. This is both good and bad, the bad is you don't know which, an accident may bend the frame rails, rust - well -.
(Hint - What the original body color and interior type/color were are an opportunity for you to select your own, and then get a replacement tag from Marti Auto. Don't tell anyone.)
Look at what current "restored" 66 Hardtops are selling for, e-bay, Craig's List, other internet listings, and subtract what you may pay for the car from the average of that group of numbers. That's your budget. You will exceed it, that's normal. Just have fun doing it.
Jim 
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline 67gta289

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2015, 02:50:55 PM »
Paul, the questions are not stupid at all.  It is good that the 6F07C matches the ownership registration.  This should equate to a 1966 model year, Dearborn assembled, coupe, with a 289-2V engine.  There is no reference in the VIN to the seat type (that I'm aware of).  That makes my points 4 and 5 irrelevant, which is good.

The buck tag might have only been a Metuchen (New Jersey) assembly plant thing in 1966.  It would be located under the hood on the fender aprons or radiator support if your car has it.  I've attached a picture of one from a 67 car.

The engine tag would be bolted to the intake manifold.

As for color, you might find some at the A pillar or under the rear window package tray.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
7R02C156xxx
MCA 74660

Offline StretchMonster

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2015, 03:16:27 PM »
Hi Jim,

The VIN is 6F07C129*** and the wheels are 5 bolt.  Both front and rear.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 03:18:57 PM by StretchMonster »

Offline ChrisV289

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2015, 05:00:02 PM »
You might be able to find the original color of the car and interior if you plan to strip the radiator support.  There are some threads on what was found there and where to look...
Chris
1965 Honey Gold Fastback (SJ 10/29/64)
1965 Caspian Blue Fastback (SJ 06/03/65)
2009 V6 Mustang Coupe

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2015, 06:12:25 PM »
Is there a special reason for interest in that particular car?

What is your end planned use for the car?

Where I'm going is - is this the right car for you or is it just something that you fell into?


You can be pretty certain with a project car.

Engine and trans will at least have to be opened up and inspected. They will not be ok to use in their current condition. If they are then you in luck and likely took a chance using them.  But price and plan of neither being good as they sit.

You will be missing more pieces than you anticipated. This means unless you have shelves of "extra" parts for this year and model replacign them will cost three times more than if you just purchased a car that was together when you purchased it

If you figure out what its going to cost to redo the car (not restoring it ;)  it will be closer to 3-4 times what you figure.

Owned allot of cars and focused on "project" car mainly in the 80-early 90's. Almost always resold them as project cars (read turned them). Why? because I could always find a dreamer that figured they could build a car cheaper than buying  a finished car. Historically I purchased maybe 20% back from the buyer 1-2 years later after they spent allot of time an money on these projects and always for less than I had sold the cars to them.

Good luck with your choices
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline StretchMonster

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 09:03:39 AM »
Hi Jeff,

There isn't a particular reason for this car, other than the fact that I have worked on them before and I have an understanding of how everything fits together.  The other reason would be that body is essentially rust free, which you don't find very often up north. 

I guess you could say that I fell int this car as it was brought to my attention after I let it be known that I was looking for a car to work on.

My end goal is to have a car that I can work on with my children to teach them, and then to have a good reliable daily driver, but I would like to keep looking original if I can. 

Thank you,

Paul

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Buying someone else's project car
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2015, 05:19:17 PM »
Guess you have to evaluate the car and all others (for comparative worth) at the moment and figure out which will be a better project in the long run.

Consider that a better and more complete car is likely a money saver in the long run and try not to limit yourself to only local cars. Remember/consider that saving $500 on the front end may cost you $2000 on the other. No matter what it is worth when your done - none of these cars are cheap anymore to build and a coupe cost just about the same as a fastback or convertible to build.

Be picky and take your time when looking   
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)