Topic: 69 NJ Finish's ?

[Bob Gaines]

Thanks for the reply and explanation.  Pictures of the wire wheeled parts that were on the car when I got it.  They may not be OE but hard to imagine why not.  The car is a September 68 build so maybe parts left from the 68 model run ?  Brian

Brian, I guess the same reason that the two upper shock bolts and shock were replaced in the reply #2 picture. The shock was replaced and since the bracket had to be taken off sometimes fasteners get replaced too. You have me second guessing myself in regards to the style of nut on a NJ 69. "If" that 68 style of nut was used it would be zinc silver. The taller 69 Dearborn nuts I suspect is more correct were zinc phosphate.

[Brian Conway]

OK, might be onto something here.  A fella on the CJ site has posted a couple pictures of his 11-4-68 Metuchen car and the shock tower appears in one of them.  A picture of the type of nuts and finish your are describing is in there  I think ?  I am better with pictures.  So does this appear to be the style and finish correct for my car ? Brian

[J_Speegle]

Thanks for the reply and explanation.  Pictures of the wire wheeled parts that were on the car when I got it.  They may not be OE but hard to imagine why not.  The car is a September 68 build so maybe parts left from the 68 model run ?  Brian

Looking at my collection of pictures the ones you show in the pictures are what I'm finding for 69 NJ. Only found 1 car with the taller Dearborn style. This IMHO suggests a different main supplier for each of these plants - Referring to the earlier pictures you posted rather than the new one you replaced those with 

Can't find a clear picture showing the bottom of the carriage bolts - nice thing is that that end will not be visible

Will post some pictures 

[J_Speegle]

Here you go - tried to focus on the time around your posted build date. Have more from through out the year all the same as the majority style shown below

The one tall nut example I was able to find


9T152094




The rest

9T132390



9T149360



9T160196



9T16xxxx



9T163024



9T167569



9T177402



9T190890


PS noticed that you asked an owner for some more pictures of their car on another site (you mentioned "may have helped solve a part and finish question") be aware that though the car is a NJ car originally the engine compartment details appears to be a collection of finishes and details from Dearborn and San Jose plants that were choosen during the build, are likely to lead you astray. Saw the car in person a couple of years back. 


The lines you asked about are to the vacuum can for the AC.

[Brian Conway]

Thanks Jeff for the pictures.  Looking at the 2 nd picture posted 9T132 and those nuts appear to be the same as the ones on my car 9T108.  Not the Tall Detroit version.  Is that correct ?  Beginning to have trouble seeing the blurry pictures with any clarity.  If the round shouldered version, pictured, they would be clear zinc phosphate ?  Brian

[J_Speegle]

Thanks Jeff for the pictures.  Looking at the 2 nd picture posted 9T132 and those nuts appear to be the same as the ones on my car 9T108.  Not the Tall Detroit version.  Is that correct ?  Beginning to have trouble seeing the blurry pictures with any clarity.  If the round shouldered version, pictured, they would be clear zinc phosphate ?  Brian

All pictured examples plus all the others I have pictures from that plant and year (excluding restored cars) except for the first example are the "rounded/angled" top surface style like you found on your car.

Finish is another question - do you have an assembly manual to find out what it states as far as part number - finish?

[Brian Conway]

Thanks for the extra effort Jeff.  The ' Library 'section, supplied by Jim, lists this part as 33771 S4.   Zinc-Phosphate  Brown/Dark Grey.  I'll be using the ' rounded/angled ' nut.  The one on the right in the photo supplied by the very same Jim.  Brian
...and Jeff thanks for the heads up about the other car I was looking at.

[Bob Gaines]

Thanks for the extra effort Jeff.  The ' Library 'section, supplied by Jim, lists this part as 33771 S4.   Zinc-Phosphate  Brown/Dark Grey.  I'll be using the ' rounded/angled ' nut.  The one on the right in the photo supplied by the very same Jim.  Brian

The taller nut that you plan on using also appears to be the ones used in Jeff's pictures for 9T160196,9T1633024,9T190890 which would be a good indicator of it's usage. The flat top tall nut is the typical 69 Dearborn version.

[WT8095]

Thanks for the extra effort Jeff.  The ' Library 'section, supplied by Jim, lists this part as 33771 S4.   Zinc-Phosphate  Brown/Dark Grey.  I'll be using the ' rounded/angled ' nut.  The one on the right in the photo supplied by the very same Jim.  Brian

I'm going to go out on a limb here and question the 33771 part number. The May '75 MPC illustration does show that part number for the nut, but I don't believe it represents what was used on the assembly line. If you look closely at your photos and Jeff's photos of both the "tall" and "short" original nuts, you'll notice they have crimp marks. These are known as "distorted-thread lock nuts" or "crimp lock nuts". The crimps are added during manufacturing. The crimping causes them to grip the bolt more tightly, which is highly desirable in a highly critical application like attaching suspension components.

Part number 33771, however, is a UBS (Uniform Bearing Strength) nut, which to the best of my knowledge was never used as a crimp nut. You will note some visual differences, too - it is tall like the "tall" nuts, but has the top edge chamfer like the "short" ones.

Update: UBS nuts are "prevailing torque" fasteners, i.e. they also have distorted threads. But they do not have an obvious crimp like the other two being discussed. The large chamfer at the top is a result of the distortion. Note that the "short" nut being discussed has a large top chamfer, but it also has visible "tri-bar" (my term) crimp marks. The "tall" nut has a rectangular crimp on one or more of the flats.

[jwc66k]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and question the 33771 part number.

Osborn Assembly Manuals specify 33771-S4 UBS nuts. AMK guide to Ford Fasteners shows crimps for UBS nuts. No other nut in the AMK guide meets the dimensions of the 3/8-16 nut. The MPC does not reflect assembly line hardware, but a service replacement. If a assembly line hardware item and service replacement are the same, it's coincidental. That's it.
Jim

[jwc66k]

One more item, Ford documentation indicates that for -S2 finish, both "zinc phosphate" and "magnesium phosphate" were acceptable as long as they finished items met salt spray, thickness and other specifications we have no way in checking. Finish -S4 was established for UBS hardware, there is no difference in general between it and -S2. To keep it simple - as in reducing the possibility of errors - referring to -S2 and -S4 as "phosphate and oil" would be a good idea.
Jim

[J_Speegle]

Thanks for the extra effort Jeff.  The ' Library 'section, supplied by Jim, lists this part as 33771 S4.   Zinc-Phosphate  Brown/Dark Grey.  I'll be using the ' rounded/angled ' nut.  The one on the right in the photo supplied by the very same Jim.  Brian

To confirm the ones in the pictures (except the top most) matches the one to the right in your pictures. It (like San Jose ones) has a angle top surface and "v"'s for a lack of a better term showing that they are locking nuts. Sorry your having some issues with seeing the details. On my computer they are likely larger (27" screen)

While we're also on the topic of finish I would not describe P&O as brown/gray but instead just gray. If they turn brown there is often some (in my experience) some rust starting and judges will likely view it that way in my experiences

[Brian Conway]

Some more finishes For the 9/19/68 Metuchen Mach 1 9T108444;
Hood hinges are Phosphate and Oil and are grey to dark grey in color
Hood Hinge Springs are hardened steel.  Phosphate and Oil treatment results in a very dark almost black color
The Fender bolts (12), shock tower bolts (12) and hood hinge fender apron bolts(6) are all spec'd Cadmium.  I used the CRC Bright Zinc aerosol to get that dull silver color.
The Hood hinge to hood bolts (4) are a Phosphate and Oil and are very dark in color.
Coil bracket is Phosphate and Oil and is grey to dark grey in color
Shock Tower Caps (2) are Phosphate and Oil.  Grey to dark grey in color.
Shock tower cap Bolts (4) are Clear Zinc and bright silver in color
Shock Tower Caps Carriage bolts (6) and Nuts (6) are Phosphate Treated and are very dark almost black in color
These treatment and finish colors are a compilation of the previous discussions, photographs and research by the participating Forum members in this thread/topic.   Take a look and point out any errors or mistakes ?  Thanks,  Brian