Topic: Media Blasting or Soda Blasting~ THEN, what PPG product?

[67gtasanjose]

Tomorrow, for the 4th of July, I'll be Glass Bead blasting and or Soda Blasting my stripped down body (unibody shell). Car is on the rotisserie.
The body work isn't done yet, so this is the "Strip & Reveal Process"

1.) Should I try and tackle the whole interior and exterior at once? (Not the doors, hood, fenders & trunk just yet, I wish to wait on those for now) I'll have an industrial compressor so will not have any wait time for the compressor to build air.

2.) THEN, for guarding against flash rust, I have a gallon of PPG red epoxy primer coming this afternoon (DP74LF with DP402LF catalyst).  If somebody can confirm  a product number/name preferred to use, that would help. Otherwise, I am at the mercy of what the paint store interprets this as suited for my needs. 

3.) If I am on the right track so far, should I also epoxy primer seal the whole bare metal areas including the"problem areas" as well, then work on those areas needing repair one by one,  individually or in small clusters later?

Just some quick ideas so I don't create extra work for myself. My basic goal is to have all of the rusty areas blasted clean (only a few small areas rusty, e.g., inner cowl and a right front floor pan)  and to have all of the door jams, trunk jams, engine bay and interior rust-free and mostly "paint free", leaving behind only seam sealers and sound deadener areas. I' am NOT blasting the underbody except some areas around the fuel tank opening, the rest is basically perfect, short of a few dents. Most of the car has had a repaint of sorts so I was thinking soda blasting the sealers and deadener areas and glass bead blasting a majority of the rest.

[67gtasanjose]

I have about an hour to buy things from the paint store before they close!!!

IS THIS A GOOD IDEA TO SHOOT THIS EPOXY PRIMER OR SHOULD I USE SOMETHING ELSE TO PREVENT FLASH RUST?

(this stuff is rather pricey to be WAISTING too! $340!!)

[GT500KR]

The PPG DP epoxy primers are designed just for the purpose you describe. Make sure your bare metal is CLEAN, then CLEAN it again! Soda may leave the surface a bit too smooth, best adhesion is achieved with a slightly rough surface. You can go over it with a DA first if needed. Make sure it's squeaky clean spray two coats, letting it flash in between.

[Cobrajet428]

PPG sells a metal conditioner "DX520" that is a phosphoric acid-based etchant which will leave a protective zinc phosphate coating once rinsed off. It is ideal for preventing flash rust and will allow the otherwise bare metal to remain uncoated for quite a while before topcoating with primer. I have used it for years and have always been happy with the results; all you need to do is follow directions to have the same experience. You don't need or want to remove it (zinc phosphate is an excellent adhesion promoter), so there's no extra work.

If you use epoxy primer to prevent flash rust, you've only bought yourself very little time, as it needs to be topcoated within days. Otherwise, you'll have the "pleasure" of having to scuff all of your primer or paint won't properly adhere to it.

Here's a link to a .pdf on PPG DX Metal Treatments: us.ppgrefinish.com/getmedia/.../p-226_dx_metal_treatment_2-13.pdf

[67gtasanjose]

The PPG DP epoxy primers are designed just for the purpose you describe. Make sure your bare metal is CLEAN, then CLEAN it again! Soda may leave the surface a bit too smooth, best adhesion is achieved with a slightly rough surface. You can go over it with a DA first if needed. Make sure it's squeaky clean spray two coats, letting it flash in between.

PPG sells a metal conditioner "DX520" that is a phosphoric acid-based etchant which will leave a protective zinc phosphate coating once rinsed off. It is ideal for preventing flash rust and will allow the otherwise bare metal to remain uncoated for quite a while before topcoating with primer. I have used it for years and have always been happy with the results; all you need to do is follow directions to have the same experience. You don't need or want to remove it (zinc phosphate is an excellent adhesion promoter), so there's no extra work.

If you use epoxy primer to prevent flash rust, you've only bought yourself very little time, as it needs to be topcoated within days. Otherwise, you'll have the "pleasure" of having to scuff all of your primer or paint won't properly adhere to it.

Here's a link to a .pdf on PPG DX Metal Treatments: us.ppgrefinish.com/getmedia/.../p-226_dx_metal_treatment_2-13.pdf

Thanks for the input, I just finished a long weekend tonight, Monday. I knew there was a product that could be sprayed on (not epoxy primer/sealer) but also didn't know how long before I get to the painting stage so went with the sealer.
Media-blasted, not soda-blasting because the fricken two repaints of IMRON polyurethane were bulletproof to normal strategies. (but man that stuff sure flowed out smooth and deep when it was new! ~1980 & 1985)
I never got to the inside of the car and worked from sunup to sundown two days plus primary cleanup till 11pm Sunday and shot the sealer on at noon today (extended lunch break from work) I had been waiting on good weather conditions since October, and rain, rain, snow, snow, arctic snow, more snow,,,rain, rain,....SHEESE I JUST NEED TWO DAYS!  Well, we finally got 3 in a row, the 4th, 5th & 6th. I just finished cleaning up the outdoors mess tonight...Now, I get at least two more sessions of this to do the inside, the doors, fenders, hood, trunk, valances....WOW! Some could grow weary of this part of the job & walk away, yes???

[ruppstang]

  Some could grow weary of this part of the job & walk away, yes???
[/quote]

That is why I thought $650 was a deal.
Marty

[Smokey 15]

 If you are going to work the panels, weld-through primer is an option.

[67gtasanjose]

  Some could grow weary of this part of the job & walk away, yes???


That is why I thought $650 was a deal.
Marty

Yes, that would be reasonable when you add it up (time & money). If I recall, you had it water-blasted with an additive for flash-rusting. I would have paid that.
I couldn't find a local who did this. I had initially secured a friend who does Monument work including graffic artwork. The problem ended up being his work schedule, my work schedule and the weather...aligning everything up with only a few days notice SHOULD the weather look good. There were only 3 windows of opportunity since the end of September when 2 of the three elements were aligned...and 1 of those only in hindsight. Weather being unstable and forecasters inaccuracies didn't help much either. Even this past weekend the weather people were calling for weekend rain (last Monday), then the chances kept falling back through the week. I put everything together beginning Thursday evening and only ended up borrowing the high volume compressor and blasting tank. I had made a wand up for going inside of the cowl area through access holes cut into the ends. This wand helped me stay back from the pelting of the media. I used the wand & hose with my ceramic nozzle from off of my own pot style blaster, the Monument Guys hose and nozzle were much too small. but his tank was much easier to fill the media with. My monument guy had other plans (Fourth of July company picnic) so I ended up going lone-wolf (it seems, as usual) I did get some part-time help from one of my kids and I did get my 12 year old grandson to cut about half of the 5-acre forest I am in charge of. (normally, a 5-acre yard, but with all of this RAIN, a forest!)

Bottom line, I would DEFINATELY PAY $650 to have somebody else do this and would recommend this to anyone else. One of my problems was having it on the rotisserie, it wasn't mobile enough to load/unload it to take it where somebody could do it at their site, during normal working hours. My need to have it done on the weekend, when I am home screwed me with continuing postponements. I guess you live and learn, hopefully, others reading this can develop a different strategy that is less stressful. Although I am not finished (I still need to do the inside of car and loose body panels), these remaining items can be done easier because they do not have to be done ALL at the same time.

[ruppstang]

At times we need to just take a deep breath and realizes that this is our hobby. I have found my self getting up tight about missing self imposed dead lines.
At least you can take satisfaction that you did it your self and even if you made some mistakes you learned from them. I really hate it when you hire a job done and they screw it up, I always think I could have screwed that up myself for free.
A note on the water blasting it took days of cleaning to get all of the glass out of the car. Being it is wet it really gets packed in the corners and crevices.
Hang in they you get to the fun part soon.
Marty

[67gtasanjose]

... I really hate it when you hire a job done and they screw it up, I always think I could have screwed that up myself for free.

YEP! This is why I have repainted my own cars ever since my first two sublet paint jobs. BOTH, were Mustangs, this one and my #2 Mustang, both were 67's and BOTH came back looking awful. I had previous to these two pathetic flops, already painted a semi tractor (Ford CL9000) a three-color paint job that came out perfect (at age 16)...so, it's not like I couldn't do it myself nor like I later never messed up a paint job on my own things either...It's just easier when you make your own mistakes.

[OldMil]

So, now that you sprayed the entire car with epoxy primer, is your intention to apply a top coat right away, or let it sit for a while.  What about the other poster's comment
"If you use epoxy primer to prevent flash rust, you've only bought yourself very little time, as it needs to be topcoated within days. Otherwise, you'll have the "pleasure" of having to scuff all of your primer or paint won't properly adhere to it."
Curious of thoughts on this as I want to prime my car in a similar fashion, but won't get to top coat for some time...

[J_Speegle]

So, now that you sprayed the entire car with epoxy primer, is your intention to apply a top coat right away, or let it sit for a while.  What about the other poster's comment

You realize that this thread is three years old. The need and time for input (for the OP needs) are likely long past 

Epoxy primer coat for everything prior to any work is pretty typical for allot of restorers and shops to hold the now clean condition while you get to things

Remember you may need to remove areas of sections to restore the car at a later point

[67gtasanjose]

So, now that you sprayed the entire car with epoxy primer, is your intention to apply a top coat right away, or let it sit for a while.  What about the other poster's comment
"If you use epoxy primer to prevent flash rust, you've only bought yourself very little time, as it needs to be topcoated within days. Otherwise, you'll have the "pleasure" of having to scuff all of your primer or paint won't properly adhere to it."
Curious of thoughts on this as I want to prime my car in a similar fashion, but won't get to top coat for some time...

By design, the epoxy primer sealer is BEST to move right into the topcoat. I know 14 years ago, I sealed a job, went in for the night with plans to come out early and shoot the whole car by simply scuff sanding, then right to the color coat. I had to yes, scuff sand but also buy more sealer, re-apply and then go directly into paint. (had not read directions first).

Current project was epoxy-sealed in 2015 and it did protect everything from rusting for 2-years now. I began the body work last fall on the quarter panels, roof, fenders etc, machine sanded everything, filled dents/dings and followed up with high-build primer. This was in early December, 2017 and in Ohio, been too cold to do more yet till whenever we warm up again (Mid May?). I can only weekend warrior the project when "LIFE" doesn't interfere so it's taking a while. 

[OldMil]

I guess I didn't realize the thread was that old.  Was searching and reading as many threads on the subject to wrap my head around it and maybe overthinking.  First, my car is a July 1968 Dearborn CJ.  I have finished all of the metal fab and repairs (got the car in 2002).  The car has been media (plastic) stripped and all sealer and even paint drips have been preserved.  I now want to machine/hand sand the entire car and prime the whole thing with epoxy prior until final prep on the sections.  I realize that there will be steps, as I perfect the various ares, but if I don't have to touch some large surfaces again, great.  Since Dearborn, I was thinking of the slop gray color for an overall primer, as a good share (bottom) of the car will remain that until overspray, sound deadener, etc gets applied in layers.  I am not one to reinvent the wheel, so looking for good tactics that are tried and true.  Plus, I'm not getting any younger Any advice is welcome...Thanks!  Jack

[mtinkham]

I finished up a 67 coupe a year ago and as memory serves, I had a problem with the DPLF. I sprayed the entire car with the DPLF and my plan was to use filler (bondo) over the top of the sealer (I thought I had read somewhere, where that was the preferred method) in the areas needing to be filled. When it came time to use the filler, I learned (or relearned) that the filler should go over bare steel only. I found it very difficult to remove the DPLF in the areas that required filler - the DPLF was very gummy and clogged the wheels I was using. Because too much time had elapsed since the coating of DPLF was applied, I had to scuff the entire car and add another coat of DPLF, then top coat with the primer surfacer. This required a lot more DPLF to be used.

When I do it again, I think I would consider the following: mask the areas needing filler and apply the DPLF over the rest of the car to protect against flash/surface rust. Remove the masking, then immediately coat the entire car with the primer surfacer. This would allow the areas that require some filler work to be slightly protected with primer surfacer which is more easily removed than DPLF. I would then be able to work the areas needing filler at my leisure. When all the filler work is complete, I would then top coat only those "worked areas" with DPLF followed by primer surfacer.

I am not a professional body person or painter, so I will revisit this idea when the time comes. Who knows, by the time I'm ready again, all of the chemical formulations may be different and require a different approach...it is most important to follow the manufacturers application instructions...