Topic: Rocker Panel Molding installation

[67gtasanjose]

Ralf : If you follow the above as noted by Richard, then you will be using 6 clips (not 5), plus the front stud/clip.I have attached the revised drawing that I ran by Richard, in order to show this better.
I had assumed (incorrectly) that Richard's was not a GT because his "Signature" just noted it was a "Delux Coupe". After Richard's comments, and going back to look at his "dimension pictures", it's obvious that his is a GT.
So, summing it up, you'll have 5 clips on the Rocker Panel, one clip on the Fender 14" from the rear of the Fender, and one stud/ clip 1-3/4" from the rear of the Front Wheel Opening.
Hope this helps.

Bob

Yes, 6 clips PLUS the stud clip.


Bob. I'm not sure the hole for the stud/clip should be measured from the wheel opening, (shown as 1.75")  I believe the measurement I provided from the back edge of the fender (in the pictures of my fender with the tape measure) would be more reliable since the front two clips sit side-by-side, if the hole was at 1.75 inches, I believe it would collide with the other fender clip (the one at 14 inches) Using the tape measure picture of that stud hole, you might see it is much less than that 1.75" measurement to the unreliable arch of the wheel opening

Using what Marty pointed out in his last post, and as I indicated before, it would be more important to get that front stud clip in first, then install the other fender (riveted clip) where it could fit in behind the stud clip, as long as it is in alignment with all of the rest that are on the rocker panel it will fit nicely.

[196667Bob]

Richard : I see what you are saying, and fully agree. It looks like the stud hole is at 15-1/16". Would you agree ? If so, or if you have a better view of it let me know, and I'll make another revision to the drawing.

Thanks for pointing this out. Ralf, do you understand ?

Bob

[Ralf]

Ralf, do you understand ?

Bob

So far, yes. However to me it is still unclear (see drawing) where the measure  14" goes from the right clip to the left side (endpoint)? Its in the middle of "nowhere".
The potential collision described.
Another thing which needs to confirmed and possibly attached to the drawing. What is the position of the first clip hole (mm) rocker panel downwards?
9/16 (7,94mm) represents only top line of the clip to marked up line. But where needs the 1st. clip hole to be drilled?

But would be great to update your drawing as you mentioned.

And if smb could sell to me the total original (and functional) set of clips incl. fender clip and stud....nice.

Thx
Ralf

[67gtasanjose]

So far, yes. However to me it is still unclear (see drawing) where the measure  14" goes from the right clip to the left side (endpoint)? Its in the middle of "nowhere".
The potential collision described.
Another thing which needs to confirmed and possibly attached to the drawing. What is the position of the first clip hole (mm) rocker panel downwards? 9/16? 7,94mm?
But would be great to update your drawing as you mentioned.

And if smb could sell to me the total original (and functional) set of clips incl. fender clip and stud....nice.

Thx
Ralf

First thing I wish to mention before responding to the questions I see Ralf may still have, I have tried to supply only the forward and aft measurements that would for all 6 of the riveted clips to ALL be placed downwards equally from the marked on line.  If it were me installing RPM on a car that has had a rocker panel replacement OR a car that did not come with the moldings, I would place a rocker panel molding into the correct "finished position", then, using a fine-tip "Sharpie" marker (or similar) for scribing that top line onto both the rocker panel and the fender of an already ASSEMBLED car. I don't feel that using another example (such as mine) and taking those measurements to establish this horizontal line would be the best idea. The idea is to get the RPM aligned PARALLEL, barely below the corner edge of the rocker panel itself, this along the full length of the rocker panel. Keep in mind, it is not impossible for a RPM produced from a different time period or different manufacturer, for those moldings to be exactly identical. Using the measurements copied from another example COULD possibly cause an installer issues of fitment. Proper "installed positioning" would be far more important than matching those numbers precisely.

It might be wise to use the measurement instructions that are supplied in the Ford document Marty supplied to do a TEST on only ONE of the riveted clips TO VERIFY the best location to set the horizontal line of all 6 of the top rivets. (suggested as APROX. 5/16" below top edge of molding) Be careful and assume NOTHING before punching all of the holes in, ONE mistake hole would be bad enough so TEST, Test and double check before drilling all of your holes. I might do my "test hole" for one of the clips somewhere in the center of the molding, screw the clip (I would not rivet it) temporarily on using only the top hole, snap the molding on temporarily and see if it sits where you want it in relation to the top of the rocker panel. If it is off a little, you'll then know which way to adjust (up or down) make the correction and try again. Hopefully, you get it right first time, if not, you have only one mistake, fill the mistake hole (if you have one) with a body sealant and move on.

 (NOTE: to prevent any scratching of your paint, I do think the initial "marker line" should be done with the front stud removed from the rocker molding, so the molding fits against the panels completely. Also a very good idea to have a 2nd set of hands for this to keep the long molding from shifting while scribing the line ~The stud gets installed after the hole for the stud gets drilled)

1.) The 14 inch measurement is a perpendicular measurement from the rear edge of the fender, to the top rivet hole of the forward most of the 6 riveted on clips used. (5 clips on the rocker panel, the 6th is on the fender adjacent to the stud clip)
2.) All top holes for the 6 rivetet clips would run the same distance downwards from the scribed line
3.) Without having my example with a fender in place at this time AND a scribed line as previously outlined, I would not have an accurate  "downwards measurement" from the scribed line available for the forward most stud hole, only the measurement from the edge of the fender, going forward to the center of the hole for that one. That measurement on my example is 15-3/16" from the edge of the fender.

I sincerely feel that the holes on different examples very likely will NOT match EXACTLY other cars, these molding are installed AFTER FINAL ASSEMBLY so to match where a factory worker drilled holes in the fender using other examples as a basis, is in my honest opinion , A HUGE MISTAKE. A person needs to use his a her natural skills of the trade at this juncture, not some sort of "template design".

To me, these measurements ought to get you into the ballpark (American for "close enough") to understand how it was originally accomplished.

I hope all this helps others, I am honestly exhausted about this topic.

[Ralf]

3 pages full of stuff.....however, still no clear answer to my "simple" question

[196667Bob]

Ralf : I'm waiting for one more dimension before revising my drawing (again), and will then post it. The drawing is based on 6 Clips, plus the Front Fender Stud. While this only follows one of the actual examples noted (Richard's Coupe), and not the two GT Fastbacks (both with 5 Clips) or the non-GT Convertible (7 Clips), it does reflect both the 1967 Assembly Manual and the Illustrations (dated 12/67) of all 3 Models in the 1960-68 Master Parts Catalog.

Bob

[196667Bob]

Ralf : I forgot to ask ; is yours an original Factory GT ? If so, apparently both Rocker Panels and both Fenders (or at lest the bottom portion of each) were replaced with no regard to reinstalling the original Rocker Panel Moldings ?

Bob

[Ralf]

Bob, No rocker panels in Marti Report mentioned. Where never installed (factory). But I like this, I therefor would like to install them.
Ralf

[196667Bob]

Ralf : My mistake. Rocker Panel Moldings were only "Standard" on Fastbacks (both GT and non-GT's); not GT Coupes or GT Convertibles.

Bob

[196667Bob]

Starting with the Instruction Sheet that Marty attached in his Reply #4, I took dimensions supplied by Jeroen and Richard and modified the Instruction Sheet accordingly, as it was initially intended for adding 1967-68 Rocker Panel Moldings to a 1969 Mustang. The horizontal dimensions are based on Richard’s Coupe, which has six (6) Retainers on each side, plus the Front Fender Clip.
The “six Retainer” configuration was used as “Typical” based on observations by others, as well as the fact that the Body Assembly Manual shows six retainers for all Models, as do the three different Body Illustrations shown in the “Exterior Molding Section” of the 1960-68 Master Parts Catalog.  This, however, does not explain the only two documented Fastbacks, and one documented Convertible that we have “to date” that exhibit five (5) and seven (7) Retainers respectively. I have added a note to that effect on the “Doctored up” Instruction Sheet.

That being said, as has been noted several times in this thread, the most important thing in the installation of Rocker Panel Moldings is that all of the Retainers are along the same horizontal line. This line is established on the Rocker Panel (following the dimensions noted on the drawing), then extended back along the Rear Quarter, and forward along the bottom of the Front Fender. After all, whether it’s 5, 6 or 7 Retainers used, they don’t show.

Note also, that in keeping with Ford's terminology, I have noted the 6 attaching parts as "Retainers", and the front Fender attaching part as a "Clip".

Hopefully, this will give Ralf a solution to his original question, as well as help others.

Personally, I would still like to see more confirmed Factory installations of Fastbacks and Convertibles noting the number of Retainers used – just my curiosity.

Bob

[Ralf]

Thank you Bob, for this great work.

However, I do have a question (as usual ;-))

I'm looking for the measures of the Fender Clip (first drawing, right side/bottom)

- vertical measure from marked up line rocker panel to mid fender hole
- vertical measure from top of rocker panel to mid fender hole
- horizontal measure from mid fender hole to front wheel house

Ralf

[Fastback2013]

Hello Ralf,

I have looked at my current situation and can say this :
If you extend the imaginary line of the top hole from the 5/6 retainers, then the mid fender hole is 13 mm below that imaginary line.
For the horizontal positioning, you must take 34 mm from the edge of the front wheel house (on the same imaginary line).
I thought it is easier to explain it like I did, because the attachment of the retainers must be done first and the fender clip last (?), since the fender can be repositioned due to alignment with hood and doors.
Then it is not difficult to extend the line from the top hole for making sure that everything is aligned properly.
I hope that my argumentation makes sense...
Kind regards,
Jeroen

[196667Bob]

Ralf : I see why you have a question - I forgot to add a dimension line. The 356.6 mm dimension is from the rear of the Front Fender (not from the previous Retainer as I have shown incorrectly); then the horizontal position of the front fender clip is the 30.2 mm past that. For the vertical positioning of the front Clip Stud hole, the best thing is to measure down from the top of the Clip (which should be on the "imaginary line extension") down to the center of the stud when it's installed in the Clip. As Jeroen noted in his reply, in his case, it was 13 mm. I'm not familiar with the reproduction Front Fender Clips, so if you are using those, that 13 mm measurement may be  different.

Bottom line; I need to Revise my drawing (already) and replace the one I Posted last night.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Bob

[196667Bob]

I have revised the one drawing noted in my Reply # 51, adding the missing dimension line along with a clarifying note. I have also inserted it back into my Reply #48,
as well as attaching it to this Reply.
Sorry for the confusion - my mistake.

Bob

[Ralf]

I will not bore you, but I'm still struggeling with some measures.

Pls see my marks in blue (a to f)

Even some measures are depending if the (Fender) clips(es) are original or repo (e.g. position a) or  b), than original measures can be used (and a remark to be written on the drawing: "clip repo measures can be different"



Hope you see what I mean.

To me its difficult to understand e.g. the measure "Measured from rear of Front Fender"

It's just a proposal.

Ralf