Topic: Rocker Panel Molding installation

[Ralf]

If smb could provide the final measures shown in a sketch related to a 67 CV, I would be happy.

May be someone has the "original" screw/stud incl. this specific plastic clip, which I could buy (even the complete OEM/NOS set?)

My car is a SJ build 11/30/66 similar to Richards.
Ralf

I'm just looking for these two things.....
Ralf

[67gtasanjose]

First three pics are of the LEFT fender, known original 11/02/66 SJ
Fourth pic is of the nut & clip-stud (possibly what Ford provided in 1979?)
last two are of the RIGHT FENDER, remember, this fender was not original, just showing what I have.

PS: I updated some text in my previous post from this morning to best represent what I see in these pictures, making every attempt to be as accurate as possibly since we are trying to be "exact in detail"

[67gtasanjose]

I'm just looking for these two things.....
Ralf

Ralf, original show quality or even NOS Rocker Moldings are almost impossible these days.  You might find a pair of used moldings with the correct front clips, possibly with the studs, possibly with the studs AND nuts but could prove very difficult.

AMK migh provide the nut and possible to get a good replacemnt stud from them (I need another stud & nut too, I'll try to look into this detail)

[Ralf]

Richard,
I'm not looking for buying NOS Rocker Moldings (will be as well too difficult and expensive to ship them to Germany), but the total clips set NOS/OEM incl. front clip + stud +nut and a sketch incl. measures CV 67.
Ralf

[196667Bob]

Original poster has a fastback? It was my understanding he had a convertible. I may have misunderstood that detail. Nobody has chimed in with any fastback measurements ON THE FENDER, to confirm the fender details. I see the assembly manual didn't include a "L" clip in the illustration. I know the fastbacks ALL RECIEVED rocker moldings in 1967 model year, but I fail to understand why the fastback body wouldn't need the same clip at that location while the convertible and coupe do. 

Richard : You are of course correct that the OP's car is a Convertible. I obviously must have been "caught up" in reading Fastback2013's reply about his Fastback clip dimensions. My Reply #19 of February 26 should have read "... on your Coupe will probably not apply to Ralf's original question in regard to his Convertible".  I know that there is a way to revise a Reply as I've seen you and Jeff do it before; I just never have so I need to figure out how to do it and correct my mistake.

As far as the Assembly Manual not showing an "L" clip on the Fastback, I believe that the Illustration showing the Fastback is only for the Vinyl Stripe application. Under the Illustration that shows the Coupe with the "L" clips, there is a note that says " C7ZB-65 SHOWN   C7ZB-63-76 TYPICAL".

One more detail I see in the last photograph of the lime gold convertible that Bob posted with the sketches, I see two "L" clips on the right fender. I also see the hole for the stud (stud "M" of the illustrations) to go into. 

Yes, this is really interesting, isn't it ? Nothing I have shows anything using 7 "L" clips. Remembering that my Convertible was built on January 31, 1967, the Illustrations I previously included from the 1960-68 MPC are dated 12/67; the 1965-72 MPC Illustrations only shows the Coupe and does not have any specific notes in regard to the Convertible or Fastback; my 1967 MPC (dated January of 1967) does not have any "Exterior Molding Illustrations, and of course, looking under the Part #, it notes the infamous words, "Includes Attaching Parts ". It would be interesting to see if other 67 Convertible owners (particularly those with "early builds", also have the same 7 clips. Also of interest is that Raif's Repro Kit included 7 of the "L" clips. I'm anxious to see when I get to my car in a few weeks, how many "L" clips are in the NOS Rocker Moldings that I picked up in the early 80's.

Bob

[67gta289]

I looked at mine (have to rely on pics for a while) and there are 5 rocker panel clips with equal distance between them.  The fenders each have a single front clip that is not like the others (not rectangular).  Neither fender have a rectangular clip, either near the front most odd shaped clip, nor closer to the door.

[196667Bob]

John : So, the number of Clips used on yours agrees with what Jeroen noted, and the spacing is the same except that between his 3rd and 4th Clip, it is almost twice as long as the others spacing ?? And his was built just a few weeks after yours. But see, I guess I was right that SJ "cheated", at least on the GTA's, using only 5 Clips instead of the 6 shown on the March 1967 Assembly Manual, and the December 1967 dated Illustration from the 1960-68 MPC. San Jose must have sent all of their extra Clips to Dearborn to add the 7th Clip to the Convertibles (Ha !).

Bob

[ruppstang]

The studs as pictured are commonly used through out the car and are not difficult to find. I think I have a box of old original clips.
 May I am just slow but there is so much verbiage in this thread I have trouble just keeping up! 

[Ralf]

I think I have a box of old original clips.

Thats I'm searching for.
May be you gonna sell them to me? And may be the studs as well?
Think 6 clips + front clip + stud + nut should be sufficient feach side for my CV  ;-)

Than I take this sketch (only question what are the measures on the questionmarks? Alternatively could apply the sketch from Ruppstang below, even it is 1969.
Or should I use really only 5 "cheating" clips, because of my CV, GTA and San Jose built? Than I'll take Jeroen's....or Richards....or Johns.
Hmm...I'm still unsure and confused....
But hope the "Concours Specialists" will give me a clear advise/recommendation for my car.



Ralf

[196667Bob]

I had a 68 body assembly manual handy it shows the oval in the clip on the bottom. It also shows a clip location drawing of a 65 model and says it is typical for models 63 and 76. It also said see drawing C7ZB-16015-6 for size and locating dimensions of holes to receive rivets. I have not been able to find that drawing yet.
Marty

Marty : At least I believe that you have confirmed one "piece of the puzzle" that we thought was correct - that 1967 and 1968 were the same. The 1967 Assembly Manual references the same Drawing for spacing and hole locations, so at least one would think that the intent was that 68's be the same as 67. That is an Engineering Drawing that I have not been able to  find either.

Thanks,
Bob

[196667Bob]

May I am just slow but there is so much verbiage in this thread I have trouble just keeping up! 

Marty : I agree; however, this has turned into a question (the OP) where we don't have a definitive answer. The MPC's and Assembly Manual all show 6 Clips; however, only Richard's (a 67 non GT Coupe) has met that criteria. Both John's and Jeroen's (early SJ Fastback GT's) have only 5 - and what appears to be different spacing. Then my early Dearborn non GT Convertible with 7 Clips. None of these, I feel, answer Ralf's original question for an early SJ GT Convertible. I think we need some input from early (or maybe late too) GT Convertible Owners.
I've attached a spreadsheet that I've worked up based on the information we have so far, hopefully to make things a little mor clear (and hopefully have something to add to it).

Than I take this sketch (only question what are the measures on the questionmarks? Alternatively could apply the sketch from Ruppstang below, even it is 1969.
Or should I use really only 5 "cheating" clips, because of my CV, GTA and San Jose built? Than I'll take Jeroen's....or Richards....or Johns.
Hmm...I'm still unsure and confused....
But hope the "Concours Specialists" will give me a clear advise/recommendation for my car.

Ralf

Ralf : Yes, as Marty noted, this is getting confusing, as well as not getting an answer for your original question (maybe the spreadsheet will help a little).
In regard to my "doctored up " drawing with the question marks, those were because I didn't realize where Richard's 14" measurement was taken from. Now that he has clarified that, I have revised the drawing and sent it to him. I'm waiting for him to confirm my revised drawing and will then Post it. But remember - his dimensions are for a non GT Coupe.

As far as what you should do, if it were me,
1)  I would NOT use the 1969 instruction because the spacing appears definitely different than any reported so far.
2)  I also would NOT use any of the Fastback GT dimensions as we don't know if GT Convertibles were the same.
3)  I would NOT use my Convertible dimensions (once I supply them), as it's from Dearborn and a non GT.
4)  Finally, I would wait a while, if you can, to see if we can get some responses from SJ built GT Convertibles. To me, this is the best, and hopefully most accurate option.

Bob

[67gtasanjose]

In regard to my "doctored up " drawing with the question marks, those were because I didn't realize where Richard's 14" measurement was taken from. Now that he has clarified that, I have revised the drawing and sent it to him. I'm waiting for him to confirm my revised drawing and will then Post it. But remember - his dimensions are for a non GT Coupe.



Bob

I never mentioned GT or NON- GT, I simply called mine a "Coupe"
Otherwise, I have reviewed and confirmed, if any other question, see the pictures I posted yesterday.

In my honest opinion, we have pretty much beat this to death in regard to the original poster's request. Quite simply, his car didn't even come with rocker panel moldings in the first place so getting them mounted in a constant manner of other cars built close to his build data is more than adequate. even though no other convertible data was presented, I doubt it is much, if at all diferent than a Coupe or Fastback version.
Now,  I do know we are sticklers for detail and I can appreciate that. Certainly others wishing to install moldings like this will be assisted  with this thread but like Marty said, we are carrying on too long (to many words)

[ruppstang]

First IMHO there is no difference between body styles or GT status as to where the RM clips are located.

As for the original poster the important thing is to get all of the clips in line however many you choose to use.

 I believe the differences we see are due to different assembly line practices and inconsistency's that can happen at any time. The first two pictures are of a 67 SJ coupe built 5-11-67. The only riveted clip is near the front with the bolt on clip. The last photo is of a 67 Dearborn convertible built 6-20-67 it has the same riveted clip near the bolt on clip but also has a second riveted clip near the rear of the fender. I do not know if these two cars are representative of the cars built at their respective assembly plants over the coarse of production or not. I have restored a number of cars and always just put the clip where they were. As with many of the things we look at here we must be careful not to assume that all cars at that plant were built the same.   

   

[Ralf]

My strategy:

"IMHO there is no difference between body styles or GT status as to where the RM clips are located."

So than I take:

2-1/2 inches (63.5mm)
15-5/16 inches (388.9mm)
27-7/8 inches (708.025mm)
40-5/8 inches (1,031.875mm)
53-5/16 inches (1,354.4137mm)
FENDER CLIP: 14 inches (355.6mm)

Close to:

It's starts from left to right.
I have in totally 5 patches in plastic (see picture 1)
- the first is at 64 mm from the rear wheelwel
- the second is at 386 mm (so there is 322 mm between the first and second patch)
- the third is at 709 mm (so there is 323 mm between the second and third patch)
- the fourth is at 1032 mm (so there is 593 mm between the third and fourth patch)
- the fifth is at 1353 mm (so there is 321 mm between the fourth and fifth patch)
There is a 59 mm gap between the 2 drilled holes (per patch)
The upper hole is at 22 mm measured from the edge of the door (underneath the sill plates)


Means I gonna use only 5 clips + fender clip

Ralf

[196667Bob]

My strategy:

So than I take:

2-1/2 inches (63.5mm)
15-5/16 inches (388.9mm)
27-7/8 inches (708.025mm)
40-5/8 inches (1,031.875mm)
53-5/16 inches (1,354.4137mm)
FENDER CLIP: 14 inches (355.6mm)

Means I gonna use only 5 clips + fender clip

Ralf

Ralf : If you follow the above as noted by Richard, then you will be using 6 clips (not 5), plus the front stud/clip.I have attached the revised drawing that I ran by Richard, in order to show this better.
I had assumed (incorrectly) that Richard's was not a GT because his "Signature" just noted it was a "Delux Coupe". After Richard's comments, and going back to look at his "dimension pictures", it's obvious that his is a GT.
So, summing it up, you'll have 5 clips on the Rocker Panel, one clip on the Fender 14" from the rear of the Fender, and one stud/ clip 1-3/4" from the rear of the Front Wheel Opening.
Hope this helps.

Bob