Topic: Opinions needed

[ruger]

I am sure you folks are getting tired of the Mustang "E" by now but I need some opinions.
I bought this car because I love muscle cars.  I had no idea that I was going to find a rare 6 cylinder car if you know what I mean.  Lol .   I am not sure which way to go with this car.  I love muscle cars, and I also love history. I love history in all aspects so I am having a hard time deciding on my car. If I could have two 69 or 70 sportsroofs, mach 1, or boss I would without a doubt have a 6 cylinder sportsroof also. 
To all of you who go to car shows,  is this car worth keeping a 6 cylinder?  I don't wanna squander my only chance at having a 69 mustang muscle car.  I don't wanna travel to shows with this car as a 6 cylinder and not even get looked at or considered because, lets face it.  It's a 6 cylinder sportsroof.  Some will look at me as a nut. So, I just want some opinions as to what this car could possibly do at shows with a decent resto. Not sure I could do a Concours car but decently shown.  I use to show horses so I know that hobbies are pretty competetive.  Just honest opinions.  Thanks   

[67gtasanjose]

I am sure you folks are getting tired of the Mustang "E" by now but I need some opinions.
I bought this car because I love muscle cars.  I had no idea that I was going to find a rare 6 cylinder car if you know what I mean.  Lol .   I am not sure which way to go with this car.  I love muscle cars, and I also love history. I love history in all aspects so I am having a hard time deciding on my car. If I could have two 69 or 70 sportsroofs, mach 1, or boss I would without a doubt have a 6 cylinder sportsroof also. 
To all of you who go to car shows,  is this car worth keeping a 6 cylinder?  I don't wanna squander my only chance at having a 69 mustang muscle car.  I don't wanna travel to shows with this car as a 6 cylinder and not even get looked at or considered because, lets face it.  It's a 6 cylinder sportsroof.  Some will look at me as a nut. So, I just want some opinions as to what this car could possibly do at shows with a decent resto. Not sure I could do a Concours car but decently shown.  I use to show horses so I know that hobbies are pretty competetive.  Just honest opinions.  Thanks   

IMHO, Keep everything as-is, working towards Concours level as much as you can. Either this or sell it to the right buyer and purchase a Muscle car version. Rare is rare and one day either you or whoever might buy this car down the road would really wish you had left it alone. Proof is in your Marty Report and in the numbers of how many of these were built.
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=10571.msg63021#msg63021

I bought my 67 Coupe in 78 and with all of the "good ideas" I had along the way...Many of those "good ideas" I had along the way I now wish I had not had...Anybody who has converted a rare car in the past has pretty much always regretted it in the end.

Richard

[Brian Conway]

Well, it is never going to be a ' muscle car ' that being said it is a real car from 1969.  Not everyone was stung by the horse power craze of the 60's.  I owned and drove a 66 hardtop, 6 cylinder, automatic from 1975 to 2009.   Always found that car to be reliable, easy to work on, fun to drive, a real beauty and I was proud to be the owner/restorer.  My opinion is that you own a unique and novel bit of automotive history if you can; restore, show and drive.  Of course owning two 69 fastbacks has it's advantages as well.  Brian

[priceless]

Hey Brian, I don't think he has two 69 FB's. I think, If I read it right, he says, "If I could have two 69 or 70 sportsroofs......"

I mentioned to ruger about a week ago over on VMF, that I've been around this Mustang hobby over 30 years, and to my knowledge, I have seen one(1) of the Mustang E's, possibly two (may have been the same one), and that was a LOOOONG time ago. I haven't seen one since .

Ford only produced 96 of these rare gems. May not be a $100K Mustang, but indeed an eye catcher, IMO, at ANY Mustang show and worth restoring as the Mustang E it originally was. And I agree with you Brian, it won't ever be a "Muscle car'',  but a true special Mustang it will always be.

Personally, I would restore, when finances allowed, the Mustang E back to it's former glory. JMO.

[cobrajetchris]

There are actually many benefits to restoring a 6 cylinder Mustang. The engines are simple to work on and not stuffed in the engine compartment with a shoe horn. They tend not to be loaded up with options that will cost more money in the restoration and they are very reliable unlike some of the fire breathers. The overall cost to restore a base model Mustang is usually much less than a muscle version as there are not as many hard to find expensive parts that are specific to a certain engine or model. With that all said the downside is you are not going to get the attention you deserve after doing a full restoration and you will hear comments like "Oh it's a 6". Based on what you are saying I would sell the car and buy the car you really want. It's too much time, labor and money to restore a car you don't really want.

[WT8095]

Ruger, what condition is the car in? Can you post some pics?

[ruger]

This was last fall soon after I purchased it.  I have since started changing the driver side torque box, floorboard and toe pan, seat supports and the end of the frame rail. This area is the worse part of the car. Pretty solid for the year and for sitting the last 20 yrs under cover. The rear wheel well lips have been patched in the past. The left side trunk dropoff is in rusty condition.  The battery apron has rust, and some on the fender aprons.  The left fender has also been patched at the bottom. The paint has been changed to yellow from the original green. The original motor has been replaced with a 351W.  The rest is all original.  C4 trans,  the 2.33 gears still there (axle tag is there stating so).
Sorry the pic is so big.  Don't know how to minimize it. 

[Mike_B_SVT]

Based on what you are saying I would sell the car and buy the car you really want. It's too much time, labor and money to restore a car you don't really want.

^^This!  Don't spend time and money on something that is not what you really want.  The E is pretty rare, so there will probably be someone that would be interested in buying it and restoring it.

On the flip side... you could restore it to a factory appearance "externally" so that it looks like a plain jane E, but put some hard core muscle under the hood for Daddy!  The original engine is missing, and it has been messed with / repainted already, so it's not like you would be committing total blasphemy and trashing an all original "1 of 96" car.  It would actually make a cool sleeper (if you are into sleepers ~ judging by the yellow paint, you are like me and want an "in your face!" kinda ride).  Can you picture a Mustang E on the outside, but with a factory appearing Q-code CJ under the hood?  Maybe put a 5 speed in it, but with the factory 3-speed shifter handle :-)  Imagine it at the car shows... hood cracked just enough to show a peek of big block w/ chrome lid... folks walking by "oh, an E! thats rare! Holy cr@p it's an E with a 428CJ!"  LOL!

That is something that would give you the best of both worlds - you restore an incredibly rare car, but you get something out of it that you want.  When the next owner takes over as caretaker they can decide if they want to finish putting it back to a 6 or not.

Just my thoughts.  Good luck, and keep us posted!

[sportyworty]

It will never be a muscle car and it would not be the right car to drop a different drive line into. If you are some what newer to the hobby this is likely not the right car for you. That all being said the people that have been into the hobby a long time and have had the privilege of owning a lot of different Mustangs will admire the car for what it is. I would spend more time looking at your car than just about any other 69 but that is only because it is recognized as extremely rare and unique. It would take a fortune to restore the E car correctly and it will never command a high dollar. Unless you can afford it or you are well into your earning potential career wise buy a 351 Mach 1 stickshift and build the motor up with a stroker and fry the tires a car like that will hold its investment layout if you do not go crazy.

[ruger]

I've thought about that route.  Instead of Mach1  make it  Econ1.   lol

[ruger]

Also,  if I can find a 69 - ? period correct motor does it matter what it came out of as long as it's a 250ci.  Wondering because at shows that may make a big difference. 

[67gtasanjose]

Also,  if I can find a 69 - ? period correct motor does it matter what it came out of as long as it's a 250ci.  Wondering because at shows that may make a big difference.

For going back Concours, this would be your largest obsticle to "get right", that is a date correct 250cid engine and possibly the trans (if it were changed out ever) The stamped final assembly date would need to be close or similar to other cars built in the same location/date as your 69, not just a "period correct" engine. Again, in going Concours, this is one of those details where you might spend the most in locating/purchasing and restoring. On a ++PLUS++ note, the transmission and driveshaft could already be correct but should be confirmed. Chances are the donor 351W was in front of a FMX transmission in the car it might have been taken from, at least usually a 351W had the FMX in front of it anyways by the ones I have worked on. (although I've seen a few with the C4 in cars or a C6 if out of a later pickup)

[ruger]

Thanks for the info.  The trans tag shows to be a C4.  Not sure if it's the original C4 but I am almost positive that it is. 
So, I would need a 9CZE motor correct?

[WT8095]

hing that would give you the best of both worlds - you restore an incredibly rare car, but you get something out of it that you want.  When the next owner takes over as caretaker they can decide if they want to finish putting it back to a 6 or not.

Middle-of-the-road isn't so bad. Preserve everything as best you can, in case you or a future owner want to go the full concours route with it later on. And in the meantime, enjoy driving it. 351Ws are fun, and you could even go back to a 250, but built for performance. The straight sixes are torquey, you can have a lot of fun at stoplights. You can always put some shorter gears in the rear for the time being. Just DON'T part with those rare 2.33 gears! Put them somewhere safe 

What do YOU think will give you the most enjoyment?

1) Metciulously restoring and preserving an especially rare, but not necessarily high-value piece of Mustang history.
2) Building a show car that will win trophies.
3) A full-on muscle car with a big block.
4) A quirky, unusual Mustang that you will spend hours explaining the history to fellow Mustang geeks who have never seen one.

These are not mutually exclusive, and honestly you can always change your mind and go a different direction. If you cut in big wheel tubs for drag slicks and punch a hole in the hood for a blower, well that's not so easily undone. 

[67gtasanjose]

... well that's not so easily undone. 

I think that is the key. To NOT do something you would regret later. Build into your project an "UNDO" button.

On our 27k mile '05 GT convertible, I have made a few mods but have built in the "UNDO" button in all the changes and holding on to all of the take-off pieces. Many things "original" to the car are systematically being substituted with other NEW or like-new pieces, storing the original take-offs. I figure if I hold on to it long enough and drive it average 1-2k miles/year, we can still show it regularly, win the trophies now and again and yet turn lots of heads all while enjoying the car 

The plan is, one day those parts will end up back on the car when it gets some form of restoration (in the future). CRAZY? Maybe...But I got rid of parts before I wish I had held, original parts to my 67. I passed on several opportunities along the way I am paying for +30 years later.

I like that idea, BUILD THE UNDO BUTTON INTO IT! Look diligently for the original (missing) parts you need in the meantime, but drive the 351! ENJOY your car!

Richard