Topic: Re: Best finish for cast iron exhaust manifolds for MCA Concours Driven?

[livetoride60]

Moderator Note: the Following posts were separated from the original thread that was not discussing a specific club, rules or acceptance of certain finishes
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8590.new#new

After consulting with Jeff, I was encouraged to enter a disclaimer, powder coating and ceramic coating were not processes used in the automotive industry when most of our cars were made. They would not be accepted in formal MCA judging.

Old post, but wanted to clarify.  From my understanding, ceramic coating, or any coating that looked like the original factory finish, WOULD be acceptable in the Concours Driven class, correct?  It allows for coatings.

[priceless]

Old post, but wanted to clarify.  From my understanding, ceramic coating, or any coating that looked like the original factory finish, WOULD be acceptable in the Concours Driven class, correct?  It allows for coatings.

This excerpt is from the MCA concours rules 69-70:(other years are the same in Concours rules).
 
 M. Exhaust Manifolds: Natural cast iron appearance (paint acceptable). May show engine
color overspray. Washer (ramp-lock) style locks. No manifold gaskets.
428 Engine Hooks: Right ‘1’ hole; Left ‘2’ holes
428 Heat Shield (Riser): Right manifold cylinders 1 & 2 ................................................................3
Workmanship, condition and cleanliness..........................................................................................2

So, this is a touchy subject. IMHO, the way I read it, you can duplicate the Natural cast iron Appearance. So my thinking is that ceramic coating utilizing close to the same natural cast iron "Appearance" is acceptable.
Also, the rule does not say "Ceramic coating unacceptable".

It also DOES NOT SAY, you have to use bare metal as when it rolled off the assembly line (i.e, like thoroughbred)

As always, this is my opinion, replies from others may vary. And keep in mind here, we are talking about Concours Driven.

 

[J_Speegle]

As always, this is my opinion, replies from others may vary. And keep in mind here, we are talking about Concours Driven.

If so then we need to move this part of the discussion to the MCA section _ done

The other thread never appears to mention MCA or Concours Driven until around post #21. If earlier and I missed that post I missed it. Since the thead took a turn I split it offf

[priceless]

Oooops, my bad. I forgot this forum isn't affiliated with the MCA.  I admit, I should've never threw MCA into this.

[J_Speegle]

......... I forgot this forum isn't affiliated with the MCA.  I admit, I should've never threw MCA into this.

Don't think that is a correct statement - the site is affiliated with MCA since it its run by MCA officials (past and currently) and attended by many members and judges.  The site is not an official MCA site nor is that the focus might be a better deception

No problem discussing MCA stuff here if that is the posters focus and we frame it clearly, but as a place to complain, suggest change or get things corrected IMHO you better served in doign those things on an "official" site

[67gtasanjose]

Don't think that is a correct statement - the site is affiliated with MCA since it its run by MCA officials (past and currently) and attended by many members and judges.  The site is not an official MCA site nor is that the focus might be a better deception

No problem discussing MCA stuff here if that is the posters focus and we frame it clearly, but as a place to complain, suggest change or get things corrected IMHO you better served in doign those things on an "official" site

I believe your "voice recognition software" may have heard you incorrectly  Made me laugh though!

[priceless]

Don't think that is a correct statement - the site is affiliated with MCA since it its run by MCA officials....................

Well, Now I think the Administrators need to get together and decide if we are affiliated with the MCA or not, because this is very misleading for our members.  caspian65 quoted as saying we WERE NOT at reply #3 in this thread:  http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=10438.msg62180#msg62180.

Also, for further confusion to members, a global Moderator has also said that we are not affiliated with the MCA as he has stated in this thread at reply #4.
 http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9148.msg53661#msg53661.

These are just a couple posts that I found that states we are not affiliated with MCA. And I am a Man of exact words. I have a tendency to remember things I read.

I think for our members not be further confused about this subject, the Administators/Moderators need to get together and let us, as members, know whether we are affiliated with the MCA or not. I have quoted MCA rules here a few times and you would think I used bad words because an Administrator would come back with a reply, that to me, was somewhat offensive. 

I have generously give donations to this site a few times and will continue, but we all need to be on the same page........

JMO

[CharlesTurner]

The site was created with the idea that we wouldn't be tied to any organization/club and be obligated to give the "MCA" answer or "SAAC" answer.  It's a great benefit to everyone in this regard because we stick to what we all believe to be correct, regardless of what is published in a judging rulebook somewhere.  We also realize that folks will want to discuss judging rules from organizations, which is why we created the sub-forums.

Other than the recent discussion about MCA test questions, there really isn't anything else that requires an MCA judge like myself to stay within the boundaries of the MCA judging guidelines on this forum.  The only MCA 'affiliation' is that a bunch of us here are MCA members, but as Jeff mentioned, if someone is looking for an "official" answer about an organizations judging rules, then that should be done on the organization's website or discussion forum.  There is no official affiliation or endorsement from MCA/SAAC or other clubs/organizations, everyone should agree with that.

The site really is a win-win for everyone... and best of all, we do not charge a yearly membership or put all kinds of advertising spam here.  Jeff and I very much appreciate the donations that have been made, it pays for keeping the domain name and paying our site provider.  We have also utilized the funds for advertising banners and acquiring pictures/documentation to share with members.

[67gtasanjose]

The site was created with the idea that we wouldn't be tied to any organization/club and be obligated to give the "MCA" answer or "SAAC" answer.  It's a great benefit to everyone in this regard because we stick to what we all believe to be correct, regardless of what is published in a judging rulebook somewhere.  We also realize that folks will want to discuss judging rules from organizations, which is why we created the sub-forums.

Other than the recent discussion about MCA test questions, there really isn't anything else that requires an MCA judge like myself to stay within the boundaries of the MCA judging guidelines on this forum.  The only MCA 'affiliation' is that a bunch of us here are MCA members, but as Jeff mentioned, if someone is looking for an "official" answer about an organizations judging rules, then that should be done on the organization's website or discussion forum.  There is no official affiliation or endorsement from MCA/SAAC or other clubs/organizations, everyone should agree with that.

The site really is a win-win for everyone... and best of all, we do not charge a yearly membership or put all kinds of advertising spam here.  Jeff and I very much appreciate the donations that have been made, it pays for keeping the domain name and paying our site provider.  We have also utilized the funds for advertising banners and acquiring pictures/documentation to share with members.

To me, to get all of this without spam or charging fees....Well' it TRULY is PRICELESS (sorry, I'm in a humorous mood today)   

[priceless]

To me, to get all of this without spam or charging fees....Well' it TRULY is PRICELESS (sorry, I'm in a humorous mood today)   

Yep, 67gtasanjose, and THAT'S the reason I have generously donated.
Sorry, but That wasn't directed to be humorous......Just a Fact.

All have a good day

[priceless]

Charles, I'm not talking about anything to do with MCA questions or judging rules or getting help with a test ,etc, etc.,

J_Speegle quoted me and stated we WERE affiliated with the MCA and Yourself and a few others here are saying we weren't.
Funny how Administators/Moderators are saying something totally different from each other.

And I also stated that I have quoted an MCA rule on occasion and you'd think that I opened Pandora's Box, Geez!!!

Just wanting some clarification so we all are on the same page.

Have a Good Day

[CharlesTurner]

Charles, I'm not talking about anything to do with MCA questions or judging rules or getting help with a test ,etc, etc.,

J_Speegle quoted me and stated we WERE affiliated with the MCA and Yourself and a few others here are saying we weren't.
Funny how Administators/Moderators are saying something totally different from each other.

And I also stated that I have quoted an MCA rule on occasion and you'd think that I opened Pandora's Box, Geez!!!

Just wanting some clarification so we all are on the same page.

Have a Good Day

What I believe Jeff was saying was some of us are personally affiliated with MCA, but that does not mean the site itself is.  Of course, Jeff can weigh in on exactly what he meant.  We, surprisingly, are pretty consistent on this kind of stuff... as well as many others here.

[priceless]

What I believe Jeff was saying was some of us are personally affiliated with MCA, but that does not mean the site itself is.  Of course, Jeff can weigh in on exactly what he meant.  We, surprisingly, are pretty consistent on this kind of stuff... as well as many others here.

No, this is what he said, first telling me that what I stated was not a correct statement. Then stating the site IS affiliated with MCA.  Not Some of us are personally affiliated with MCA.

Don't think that is a correct statement - the site is affiliated with MCA since it its run by MCA officials (past and currently) and attended by many members and judges. 

Just trying to stay on same page with everyone.

I'm done here. Have a Good Day All......

[67gtasanjose]

Yep, 67gtasanjose, and THAT'S the reason I have generously donated.
Sorry, but That wasn't directed to be humorous......Just a Fact.

All have a good day

As for MCA rules, I have no dog in the race. I haven't "ponied up" (another punn) the membership fees there just yet.

I believe I am going to step up to the line on the other half of what seems like an insinuation that PAYING people should get "more" than others do. I feel after reading your last comment that to be directed towards ME or others who do not give as much as you have.

IMHO, to choose to make donations (to Concours Mustang Site) or to choose NOT to give anything, should and I feel does not change anything about this sites ability to accomplish what I outlined in RED in my previous post above. I do consider the information obtained here over the last year (since I have been a MEMBER and not just a lurker) to be exactly what I called it... PRICELESS! . The fact that is your username only made it fun to use the punn, so all punn was indeed intended, but intended as humor, not as an attack  I'm not sure you got that it was simply a play on words, but I sure hope you took it as such 

My comments on this information being priceless is based upon my financial limitations at this time so I offer help to others when I can. My project is far enough off from completion that I believe at this time my (limited) monies are best spent towards obtaining the parts and doing the research I need to get it right for now. Maybe others who have unlimited access to unlimited cash flow might prioritize differently than I do but to each his own. I realize many people visiting this site ARE members of MCA and most members of MCA and other members (such as Concours Mustang Forum members of any status) work to achieve a project that they will not get "dinged" on when they might show it or sell it after completing. I think, just in my own observations, that the Moderators/Administrators do a fabulous job of catering to ALL who may visit regardless whether they are MCA members, MCA Judges, SAAC members/judges,  Concours "Subscriber" members, Concours "donation" Members, Concours "Newbies"...I think you see what I mean. I do not see or recognize any need for beating on them publically for not measuring up to your standards of expectations when, again to most of us, they already do an awful lot for not so much as even a regular paycheck, but simply out of the love they have to see others "getting it right"

I hope this doesn't continue to push any buttons but since I COULD today, I GAVE a donation too. Small as it may be, maybe NOW I have the "rights" to speak my mind so boldly as I have.

Good Day 

Richard Urch, 440-466-5644

I do not require a username or an email account to hide behind, feel free to call me anytime

[CharlesTurner]

I don't want to continue to speak for Jeff, but there is a difference between saying the site is officially MCA affiliated and being affiliated by being run by MCA members.  Jeff and I are also SAAC members too and this website has no official affiliation with that club.  If I decide to not renew my MCA membership next year, this site will still continue on as it has.

This site is absolutely, 100% NOT officially affiliated with any club or organization.

Hope that clears up things.