Topic: 1/8/69 San Jose fasteners & finishes

[jmlay]

I would like to ask for assistance in defining the proper fasteners & finish for the cowl/windshield trim, cowl panel, washer nozzles & rear valance of a 1/8/1969 build Mach1. I have done some research & have purchased an AMK body kit. Some of the fasteners do mot match whey I remember & both seem to conflict with some of my research. Unfortunately I do not have all of the originals for identification.

Cowl/Windshield Trim:

I could not find any information on the screws that mount the brackets to the cowl or screws utilized to secure the trim to the A pillers. From what I recall the bracket screws were a hex head with a black finish. The screws for the stainless trim I assume were a phillips head machine screw in either stainless or chrome, not sure if it is pan head, button head or other.


Cowl:

The AMK concours body kit contains 5 gold zinc/cadmium hex screws with 2 button head phillips screws for the rubber bumpers.

Some of the research indicated all 7 screws were silver zinc/cadmium & the 2 for the bumpers had a washer & were longer.

Reviewing my bolt bucket, I know I know..., I think the 5 cowl mounting screws should be hex head silver zinc/cadmium, mine have an "R" in the center & are self tapping. Head looks like "B-12040" in the AMK catalog, http://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/74-91.pdf.

From memory the bumpers screws were phillips & black but the finish seemed smooth no rough like what is in the AMK kit, possibly a raised head phillips.


Washer Nozzles:

I did not find these in my AMK kit.

I do have a a cowl panel, unknown origin, with the original screws. These screws are a black hex screw with what looks like a bulls eye in the center.

Pictures I have seen of other San Jose cars show a gold zinc/cadmium hex screw.


Rear Valance:

The AMK kit has 11 phillips pan head screws that are gold zinc/cadmium plating. I am unable to find the picture but as I recall in that picture the screw was a raised head screw not a pan head. I also want to say these were a black finish...


If you have any further insight on the correct screws or finishes I will be happy to hear it.

Thanks, 

[J_Speegle]

Mike just got back from SAAC week so I'll go through my pictures and available cars over the next days or so to see what hel;p I can offer

[rockhouse66]

The rear valance screws in my 3/69 San Jose car appear to be phosphate, phillips, rounded head.

[jmlay]

Thanks to both.

I am not saying yours are not  but I do not think I have seen phosphate and oil phillips screw. I could see where a zinc silver or gold could corrode & look like phosphate. It will be interesting to see some additional examples.

[rockhouse66]

I agree, hard to tell due to age.  I haven't had them out to study the backside of the screw, which would probably give a clue.  You be the judge.

[jmlay]

I don't blame you. I would not be pulling them out for inspection either. Looks like a nice original car from the limited view.

[J_Speegle]

Here are a few reference pictures of the items you asked about
















I've found the cowl retaining hardware, windshield trim screws and windshield washer screws to be phosphate


As mentioned rear valance look to be the same finish (and the license plate light shield also)

[jmlay]

Thanks Jeff. Is the washer on the screw retaining the rubber bumper zinc or phosphate?

[J_Speegle]

Thanks Jeff. Is the washer on the screw retaining the rubber bumper zinc or phosphate?

Believe zinc or dichromate - will check some cars at the shop this week that have not spend as much time out in the weather to confirm

[jmlay]

Thanks again for the extra effort. My assumption is Zinc but if you have an example all the better.

[jmlay]

Jim & Jeff,

Hope i have not belabored this point too much but then again that is what the forum is for I guess. I stumbled across a previous conversation over Jim's car. That discussion indicated the same screws were used across the cowl & hood bumpers, both cadmium, on Jim's car. Jeff referred to the same picture above & he found zinc dichromate, 9R01H114855. Seems both cadmium & zinc dichromate may be "correct".

From Jeff's pictures I am able to verify the screws are the correct screws & appear to be silver under the head, assuming cadmium...:

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/concours-forum/581328-69-cowl-hood-bumper.html

[svo2scj]

I don't think anyone thinks that ! 

In fact, I think it points out the effort it takes to detail (AND OR) not take the "easy" way of assembling a car from a catalog.

Here (SJ April 69) prior to dissasembly 

Unlike different practices at plants that can be explained but to "managers" or modified/improved techniques - FASTENERS could have been a supplier difference,  changed due to the tools the line was fitted with or a manager that "saw a better way"/ran out once and found an alternative. 

Mark
P.S.  In the case or SJ cars - I really think "suppliers in proximity" played a role as there are MANY different head markings from the East Coast cars.

[rockhouse66]

Here is a detail of one of my cowl screws.  It looks to be cad or zinc plated (silvery), but the gold finish on zinc dichromate parts doesn't last long so it certainly could have been zinc dichromate.  AMK apparently thinks so too, as that is what is in their kit.  I'll try to remember to look in the assembly manual to see if it calls out a finish code for these (just for fun), unless someone beats me to it.

[jmlay]

Great picture Jim. That is what the head of the screws I found in my misc. screw box. Mine are pained blue from the respray the car had at one time. The underside of the heads are grey/silver. I would expect if they were dicromate the threads & underside would still be gold/yellow.

The light makes then look a bit yellow but they are not.:

[jmlay]

Thanks to all for the education!