Topic: Factory Vinyl Roof?

[tomtri66]

I am trying to determine if my Metuchen January 20, 1966 built hardtop originally had a factory vinyl roof.  The car was repainted when I bought it and the only evidence of a vinyl roof was the sail panel trim pieces installed.  There is no evidence of rivet holes in the drip rail for retaining strips, there are no factory seam alignment "dimples" under the windshield trim, and no mention of vinyl roof on the buck tag.

Does the absence of this physical evidence suggest it did not have a vinyl roof?  Does anyone know of any factory vinyl roof Metuchen built cars that did not note the vinyl roof on the buck tag?

Thanks for your input.
Tom

[JKWilson]

Depending on how well the previous work was done there may still be a few clues left. Just under the rear lips of the front fenders the factory vinyl tops had several drive "nails" installed in the windshield pillar where the vinyl ended. The same "nails" where installed in the roof in the face of the channel for the front and rear glass. They would be at the point where the seams were in the top. There would also be a BUNCH of driver staples along the same area across the channel. The final thing I could think of is scratch marks on interior side of the sail panels where the nuts were installed for the trim pieces. Most removal jobs (even if done extremely well), will eliminate most of the clues, but not all.

[CharlesTurner]

The best way to know for sure is to look where the rear quarters attach to the roof.  On vinyl top cars, there is an indentation where the molding attaches on each side.  Regular cars, no indentation.  The vinyl top cars with the indentation have the chrome molding fitting nearly flush where it meets up by the rear glass moldings.  Always a big gap on cars with vinyl top added.

Also, if I remember right, your buck tag would have a code for the vinyl top color.

[JKWilson]

Charles the only reason I didn't mention the indentation was it sounded like Tom's car has possibly had the vinyl removed. Any decent body shop would probably have filled the indentation left behind. That is, unless they left the molding in place, which I'm sure you've seen numerous times.

For those that don't follow what indentation is being referred to, it's the seam where the top of the quarter panel and bottom of the sail panel (roof), meet during assembly. On non-vinyl top cars this seam was leaded in at the factory. For vinyl top cars the seam was left to allow the vinyl top molding to sit down in.

[tomtri66]

Thanks guys.  Sounds like taking a look under the headliner behind the sail panel will do me no good as all hardtops will have the indent as viewed from the back.  My car has this area filled, whether by the factory or by a body shop, not sure.  I guess the only way to tell in that area is to look for leaded seams, and with the car painted that won't happen at this time. 

Looks like the only way to tell is to look for evidence of nails and staples that you mentioned.  I put the headliner in this car 15 years ago and I did not find any as I recall.

Tom

[J_Speegle]

Looks like the only way to tell is to look for evidence of nails and staples that you mentioned.  I put the headliner in this car 15 years ago and I did not find any as I recall.

The forward most (at the base of the windshield post) would be the easiest (if they are there or have not been filled) at this point IMHO

[JKWilson]

Well crud! I forgot about one other potential spot to check Tom....the radiator support! Keeping in mind mine was a Dearborn car, it was (what I believe to be), marked as having a black vinyl roof. Dunno if you markings are still present (under the black), but you could check , unless it was media blasted previously. Chances are slim of the markings remaining then. Here's what mine looked like after stripping the black top coat (I've circled the area):



Here's a picture of the area of the windshield pillar (also circled),  to check for the drive nail holes that Jeff just suggested. You can see one hole where I had already removed the drive nail. The funny looking spot to it's left is where there was still a drive nail.


.
Hope that helps a little more

[CharlesTurner]

Since he has a NJ car, I think it's pretty easy to know if the car came with a vinyl top by looking at the buck tag.

[JKWilson]

Since he has a NJ car, I think it's pretty easy to know if the car came with a vinyl top by looking at the buck tag.

The buck tag stamping kinda got lost on me amidst all the other possible indicators. If I'm not mistaken, "VINYL TOP-A" for black, "VINYL TOP-B" for white. Sound correct?

[CharlesTurner]

Sounds right.  As soon as I typed my last response, noticed that part of the original question was if he didn't have the vinyl top code on the buck tag, was it still possible to have one.  My answer to that would be that it was very unlikely as a vinyl top install at the factory wasn't a simple procedure.  Think it would be fairly easy to rule things out like the tack holes, holes in the drip rail for rivets and the indents in the rear quarters (with holes made to attach the moldings.)

[tomtri66]

Thanks everyone.  I will look for the mentioned holes.  At this point I am fairly certain the car did not have a vinyl top, based on the buck tag, no rivet holes, and that I don't recall any evidence at the windshield when i installed the headliner.  Makes me wonder why a PO installed the chrome trim pieces.  The only explanation that i can think of is that when I stripped the car in 94 to paint it, i found repaired quarter panel/sail panel damage on the drivers side.  It was done badly, the quarter panel was sectioned using a piece from a donor car which joined with a weld above the rear wheel.  The whole quarter was then bondo'd.  I had to replace the quarter and straighten the sail panel to get everything aligned.  It's possible a PO added the trim pieces as some sort of attempt to hide the repair.    Luckily, the rest of the car was straight and the unibody measurements checked out, but it wasn't a pleasent surprise to find that.

[CharlesTurner]

Vinyl tops were somewhat popular, so it wouldn't be unusual for one to be added.  A friend of mine that restored a lot of cars in the 80's and 90's added vinyl tops to maybe half of the coupes he did.

[tomtri66]

Just checked, no nail holes in bottom of pillars as illustrated in the above photo.  Looks like evidence points to no factory vinyl roof.  Possibly aftermarket vinyl as Charles suggested but I think its safe to say it left the factory without vinyl.  Thanks again everyone.

[JKWilson]

Tom along the same lines as Charles mentioned for "aftermarket" install, they were offered as a dealer installed option too. I have a copy of the instruction sheet that came with the kit and it goes so far as to indicate where to glue the top and where to drill for ALL of the previously mentioned holes (including the drip rails and drive nail locations, though they utilized screws instead of drive nails!). I've never seen a kit before, though I'd bet if anyone has it'd be Bob Perkins!