Topic: Crankshaft Pulley Bolts - 68 FE

[preaction]

This picture is of a July 68 428 that has a known history and 21k miles.

[warwick]

Thank you.

That looks like the 42998-S8 Grade 8 Place Bolt (listed in MPC Final Issue). That answers a few questions. There was no recall, maybe a running production line change.

I don't know what the 68 MPC indicates but other doc has the G2 SEMs bolt.

All indications are the UBS bolts I have were specified for the engine. My engine is a March 30 assembly date.

[Bob Gaines]

Thank you.

That looks like the 42998-S8 Grade 8 Place Bolt (listed in MPC Final Issue). That answers a few questions. There was no recall, maybe a running production line change.

I don't know what the 68 MPC indicates but other doc has the G2 SEMs bolt.

All indications are the UBS bolts I have were specified for the engine. My engine is a March 30 assembly date.

As I posted before in reply #3 it was typical to see the same bolt(reply 15) on 67, 68 and 69  FE engines used in Mustangs. That indicates this odd bolt in discussion was more of a blip ,anomaly or substitution then a running production line change. Normally the running production line changes go from one style to another from that time forward. It would be unusual to go back and forth in usage. Also running production line change imply's a much higher usage which doesn't seem to be the case here. From all of the evidence if this bolt was used from the factory it was for a very short time . A substitution for what ever reason is a more accurate description of why this bolt happened IMO.

[J_Speegle]

That looks like the 42998-S8 Grade 8 Place Bolt (listed in MPC Final Issue). That answers a few questions. There was no recall, maybe a running production line change.

Looking at earlier MPCs I don't see any bolts for these applications identified with a number starting with a "4" so that may suggest that the part listed was a replacement rather than the original application.

In the Aug 69 version found no bolts for 68 FE balancer to crank pulley applications except for ones with cast iron pulleys and those cases the specifications were 3/8"- 16 x1"

[warwick]

Bob, I agree with you the Place Bolt is common (and orig in 68 and subsequent years).  Ford doc indicates the original bolts are PN 374525-S8 Grade 2 SEMs- Jim has 374575-S8 in the hdw spreadsheet.

Jeff-not sure why the 42998-S8 Place Bolt wouldn't show up in earlier MPLs.

I am not suggesting the Grade 5 UBS Bolts on my car were a running change. I am suggesting there was a change to the 42998-S8 Place Bolt (it is in Ford Doc).

[J_Speegle]

Bob, I agree with you the Place Bolt is common (and orig in 68 and subsequent years).  Ford doc indicates the original bolts are PN 374525-S8 Grade 2 SEMs- Jim has 374575-S8 in the hdw spreadsheet.

Jeff-not sure why the 42998-S8 Place Bolt wouldn't show up in earlier MPLs.

This is one of the reasons I dislike trying to use engineering and part numbers to confirm or use as proof about how our cars were built. Just being honest and u front.

Looking back through the MPCs I have access to including the final 75 version. The part number you listed 42998 shows up not in the parts list but in the illustrations and I found it interesting that where I found the number and the illustrations was in the AC section of the MPCs. Then if you look at all the pages that cover 67 and 68 FE and for different car models you will find the 42998-S8 as well as a few other numbers identifying the crank pulley to balancer bolts and even different number depending on if it is a hang-on style or assembly line. What IMHO a rabbit hole that is not likely going to prove anything about the specific bolt you show.

[Bob Gaines]

Bob, I agree with you the Place Bolt is common (and orig in 68 and subsequent years).  Ford doc indicates the original bolts are PN 374525-S8 Grade 2 SEMs- Jim has 374575-S8 in the hdw spreadsheet.

Jeff-not sure why the 42998-S8 Place Bolt wouldn't show up in earlier MPLs.

I am not suggesting the Grade 5 UBS Bolts on my car were a running change. I am suggesting there was a change to the 42998-S8 Place Bolt (it is in Ford Doc).

As far as I have seen the 42998-S8 Place bolt like seen in reply #15 has been used from the beginning of the FE engine in the 67 Mustang on forward so it is a little inaccurate to say " there was a change to the 42998-S8 Place Bolt"  when that style bolt was used from the beginning.  This may be a example of what is written in the MPC vs. what happened in the real world on the assemblyline.

[jwc66k]

Bob, I agree with you the Place Bolt is common (and orig in 68 and subsequent years).  Ford doc indicates the original bolts are PN 374525-S8 Grade 2 SEMs- Jim has 374575-S8 in the hdw spreadsheet.

I looked up my Mustang Hardware Spreadsheets history files from 2015 and 374575-S8 does not appear, not does it appear in the index od the AMK Guide to Ford Fasteners. The Ford hardware part number initially used in the spreadsheets for this application has been 374525-S8.
Jim

[jwc66k]

This is one of the reasons I dislike trying to use engineering and part numbers to confirm or use as proof about how our cars were built. Just being honest and u front.

I'll be honest too. These Mustangs were built to formal documentation by the Ford Motor Company, released and controlled, by several different engineering design groups well before the first Mustang, or any other Ford product rolled down the assembly line. You call it an "engineering part number" to differentiate from a "service part number", which I continually refer to as a "service stock number". Both types of numbers will get you the part you need, eventually. The closest documents depicting how Mustang were actually assembled have been made available to us and they are the Osborn Productions Mustang Assembly Manuals - and quite frankly, we are lucky to have them. We know that changes were made either on the assembly line by line engineers, or by the original engineering groups. Some of those changes have been included in revisions to the Assembly Line documentation, other changes we simply do not have access to. You want to take a picture of an "oddity", please do. Make sure you state it may or may not be a standard deviation. These crankshaft pulley bolts fit the latter.
Jim

[warwick]

This is one of the reasons I dislike trying to use engineering and part numbers to confirm or use as proof about how our cars were built. Just being honest and u front.

Looking back through the MPCs I have access to including the final 75 version. The part number you listed 42998 shows up not in the parts list but in the illustrations and I found it interesting that where I found the number and the illustrations was in the AC section of the MPCs. Then if you look at all the pages that cover 67 and 68 FE and for different car models you will find the 42998-S8 as well as a few other numbers identifying the crank pulley to balancer bolts and even different number depending on if it is a hang-on style or assembly line. What IMHO a rabbit hole that is not likely going to prove anything about the specific bolt you show.

Jeff, here is the reference to the Gr 8 Place Bolt in MPL Final Issue. It is included w/crankshaft damper.

[warwick]

As far as I have seen the 42998-S8 Place bolt like seen in reply #15 has been used from the beginning of the FE engine in the 67 Mustang on forward so it is a little inaccurate to say " there was a change to the 42998-S8 Place Bolt"  when that style bolt was used from the beginning.  This may be a example of what is written in the MPC vs. what happened in the real world on the assemblyline.

FWIW in the MPL attachment I just posted the MPL indicates 68 as the first yr not 67 for the GR 8 Place Bolt.

I will post my references to the other PNs to validate change (in doc anyway) as time allows.

[warwick]

I looked up my Mustang Hardware Spreadsheets history files from 2015 and 374575-S8 does not appear, not does it appear in the index od the AMK Guide to Ford Fasteners. The Ford hardware part number initially used in the spreadsheets for this application has been 374525-S8.
Jim

I think I referred to replys or notes wrong on 374575-S8 or it was a typo. I was checking various docs but it doesn't make a difference because both bolts were GR2 (as I recall) SEMs bolts and not a GR 8 Place Bolt.

[warwick]

I'll be honest too. These Mustangs were built to formal documentation by the Ford Motor Company, released and controlled, by several different engineering design groups well before the first Mustang, or any other Ford product rolled down the assembly line. You call it an "engineering part number" to differentiate from a "service part number", which I continually refer to as a "service stock number". Both types of numbers will get you the part you need, eventually. The closest documents depicting how Mustang were actually assembled have been made available to us and they are the Osborn Productions Mustang Assembly Manuals - and quite frankly, we are lucky to have them. We know that changes were made either on the assembly line by line engineers, or by the original engineering groups. Some of those changes have been included in revisions to the Assembly Line documentation, other changes we simply do not have access to. You want to take a picture of an "oddity", please do. Make sure you state it may or may not be a standard deviation. These crankshaft pulley bolts fit the latter.
Jim

Fastener PN's are a world their own-I don't think you can discuss them in same context as most parts-but there is a structured organization to them. The big Standard Catalog is the place a design engineer would go for a fastener. If it wasn't in the Standard Catalog-there was a process. Purchasing needed a PN to obtain. For those of us who spent time in a large product oriented engineering org - there are standards and they are seldom if ever bypassed.

With respect to hobbyist activities: I learned a long time ago to refer to the Assembly Line Doc if you want the closest to reality, BUT - I haven't necessarily the same opinion/comfort level  with the Engine Assembly Manual yet.

REMEMBER - my post was identifying an oddity (GR5 UBS Bolt) to see if others saw it; I ran into this GR2 SEMs vs GR8 Place Bolt observation.