Author Topic: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study  (Read 736 times)

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« on: July 13, 2022, 06:23:53 AM »
A question came up between another member and I that MAY prove to be a running change.

Late September 66 production, did all 67 Mustangs receive the Exterior Decor option Engine Wiring Harness?
This member (whom I am sure will chime in with his related research) has a friend who has a car with NO PIGTAIL for this option so either it has been cut off, never came with it or on the outside chance, had a separate harness (like the 69's?) to get the lights in the hood to function?

To add to any potential for confusion, there are different harnesses for options such as Factory Tachometers.

To be clear, did early cars that recieved the turn signal hood have a sub-harness to operate the lights in the hood. Pretty much all of the cars that I recall, had the pigtail down by the breakout in the harness for the brake failure warning light.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2022, 06:16:42 PM »
Richard is this the loom your looking for?

From 7R1156xx

Jeff Speegle

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Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2022, 10:17:50 PM »
Richard is this the loom your looking for?

From 7R1156xx



Yes, that looks like what has been described.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2022, 11:40:25 PM »
Thanks for confirming what I'll be looking for. Don't have the real build date of the car in the post above :(
Jeff Speegle

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Offline 196667Bob

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2022, 04:28:15 AM »
Richard : I wasn't going to start this thread until I had a little more information, but since you did, I'll pass on what I have found out so far.

For several years, I have been helping a friend, and fellow CMF member in California, with his 67 Mustang Coupe. In particular, he had questions in regard to original Ford Accessories and Options that were available for his 67, This included what all was included with them, how they were installed, instruction sheets, etc.

His car, for which he has his Marti Report, is a 67 Coupe, built in San Jose on September 30, 1966 (6 days ahead of schedule). It is a non-GT, 289 C Code, with C4 Automatic, Power Disc Brakes, Power Steering, Select-Aire, Tinted Glass, and AM Radio.

Recently, he told me that he'd like to add the Hood Mounted Turn Signal Hood to his car, and asked if that would be a problem. I told him that it was part of the Exterior Decor Option, and "to be correct", the Wheel Lip Moldings, Trunk Moldings and Pop Open Gas Cap should also be added. He wanted to start with just the Hood. I told him that once he had the correct Hood, and Turn Signal Harness, it was basically just "Plug 'n Play", connecting the harness connector to the one located outboard of the Master Cylinder. I sent him a copy of the Exterior Lighting, Turn Signal Wiring Diagram from the 1967 Shop Manual (printed March of 1967),  with the connector circled, as well as an actual picture of the connector (first two pictures attached).
When he got back to me he noted that he had purchased a 67 Deluxe Hood that was complete with the lights, grills and Hood Harness, and most importantly to him, was the same color as his car so that he wouldn't have to have it repainted. From reading the 5 page thread that was started here in 2012 on the Hood Mounted Turn Signals, he knew that the Hood was not really correct for his early car, as it had the too large holes, but he was not as concerned about that as the fact that it would not have to be repainted. He also knew from reading the thread, that the Turn Signal Harness was not correct as it had the plastic light socket housings, and not the metal ones that the early ones should have,

The next time he got back to me, a few days later, he noted that he and his Son had looked all around the Master Cylinder for the connector, or cut wires where it may have been, but there was no evidence of the connector. I then thought that possibly, the early cars had a different Headlight-Turn Signal Harness. I Pulled out my Preliminary Shop Manual (Printed in August of 1966), and sure enough, the wiring diagram in it (copy attached) shows no "extra" connector for the "RPO Turn Signals" as noted in the regular Shop Manual. I then went a little further, and looked in the 1960-68 MPC for 1967 Mustang Headlight Harnesses. To my surprise, there were actually four different headlight harnesses listed for non-GT's and without the Tachometer Option (copy attached). One of the four is noted :Before 10/7/66", which gives the possibility that it may not have had the connector for the Hood Mounted Turn Signals. I say possibility because we do know from previous comments, that cars built in November, December, and January (and probably later), all have the connector.

I passed this information on to my friend, and told him that there must have been an "auxilliary" harness  that was used in addition to the Headlight Harness, when the Exterior Decor Option was present, but I did not know that for a fact.
When he next got back to me, he noted that he had contacted a Mustang Restoration Shop about an hour from his home, that had been restoring Mustangs for over 35 years. He said that the Owner told him that he had the auxilliary harness that he needed, and said it was from an early October 1966
Mustang. The Owner told him that the harness was used if either, or both the GT Option (Fog Lights), or Exterior Decor Option (Hood Mounted Turn Signals) were ordered. [as an aside here, after seeing the example that Jeff Posted, where there does not appear wires that continue on to the Fog Lights, I'd say that there is a good possibility that there were 3 auxilliary harnesses that were used ; one if the GT was ordered without the Exterior Decor Group, one if the Exterior Decor Group was ordered for a non-GT, and one if both the GT Option and Exterior Decor Option were ordered, which is the one that the Shop Owner was offering to my friend]. My friend purchased the harness that he was offered by the Shop Owner (picture attached).

I told my friend that all we needed now was to know how, and where the under dash connections were made. My friend contacted the Shop Owner again and asked that question, and the Owner gave him a sketch for making a double three connector "jumper" (as he called it), and mentioned getting an aftermarket under dash harness. I don't see any reason for another under dash harness, as the 1960-68 MPC shows that only one under dash harness was used from the beginning of production until January of 1967. While I can of course tell him how to make connections more easily, and a lot less expensive in order to make the Hood Mounted Turn Signals function, I'd really like to know how Ford did it at the Factory. My guess would be something like a 2 x 4, female bullet pigtail.

Of course, the only way we'll know for sure (and the whole purpose of this lengthy "dissertation", is to get feedback from Owners of August through early October Mustangs, with known Factory Exterior Decor Options. Hopefully we'll get some so we all can "be in the know".

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154XXX, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154XXX, Actual Build Date 01/31/67
MCA 04909

Offline midlife

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2022, 11:48:01 AM »
The area marked in yellow contain male bullets, which are receivers of power.  It appears that your picture does not contain the typical pigtail pickups of turn signals (3 pin) normally found at the turn signal connector areas at the front of the car.  I think what is missing is that harness that picks up those signals from the pigtails, routes them to the firewall area, where the male bullets plug into and passes it on to the 2 pin molded connector that mates with the hood harness. 

My suspicion is that this early version incorporates 2 separate harnesses for hood turn signals outside of the hood harness itself, and that the later versions use a single, integrated version using the 3 pin turn signal pigtails and the one dual pin plug for the hood harness.
I checked my stockpile and I don't have any 67 hood harnesses, as they must be included with my 68's.  These are difficult to differentiate when received in bulk form without year identification and stickers are gone.
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Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2022, 07:32:05 AM »
Richard : I wasn't going to start this thread until I had a little more information, but since you did...

Bob

I figured we should get this party started...I certainly do not "know it all" but always fun to learn more as we go along this journey of 1967 Mustang Running Changes...it was clear by our email, something more was going on with these Early cars and more eyes, those with different experiences, would perhaps help with this particular mystery.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 196667Bob

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2022, 11:13:08 AM »
Richard : True. However, helping to solve this "mystery" is going to depend a lot on getting responses from owners of August, September and early October cars (or those that have worked on them) that had the Exterior Decor Option. Hopefully, we'll get a better response than we did on that 5 page thread we had on the Hoods themselves.

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154XXX, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154XXX, Actual Build Date 01/31/67
MCA 04909

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2022, 02:45:41 PM »
Haven't had time to look yet but with the separate loom do it pass through a separate hole in the firewall or share with one of the other looms?  Looking for another way to find examples of the single loom on those cars if there was an "extra" hole.

Tough dark area of the engine compartment that does not stand out well unless your focusing the picture on just that small dark area  ::)
Jeff Speegle

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Offline 196667Bob

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2022, 04:23:38 PM »
Jeff : The Owner of the Shop where my friend purchased this "auxiliary" harness/ loom, told him that itcame from an early October GT, and went through the same grommet as the Headlight Harness. Hearsay I know, but that's what he told him.

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154XXX, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154XXX, Actual Build Date 01/31/67
MCA 04909

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2022, 06:14:44 PM »
Jeff : The Owner of the Shop where my friend purchased this "auxiliary" harness/ loom, told him that it came from an early October GT, and went through the same grommet as the Headlight Harness. Hearsay I know, but that's what he told him.

Bob

Thanks. As usual or "job" is to help determine if dates of changes and other things match up with what was done in real life and if it varied (the date) from plant to plant. Just thought if it was an additional hole that would be another way to identify those cars with that version even if the wire was no longer there.

The search continues
Jeff Speegle

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Offline ruppstang

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2022, 07:12:28 PM »
As I recall I thought it was odd that our 67 GTA convertible 7R03C129401 built 11/04/66 had a separate harness for the hood lights. This one was a bit passed your cutoff date.

Offline 196667Bob

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2022, 08:23:17 PM »
Marty : Well that is interesting. While we all know that dates given for a change (particularly in MPC's) are not "written in stone:, as Ford would typically use up what they had before implementing the change, However, almost a month later does seem odd.
Before Richard started this thread, I had asked him if he had the connector for his Hood Mounted Turn Signals as part of the Headlight Harness. Unless I misunderstood, he said he did. Of course, if I understood correctly. this would add a "wrench" into things, since his car was built 2 days prior to yours !

So Richard, is that correct that your connector comes out of the Headlight Harness like my January 31 car (picture attached) ?

Bob

1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154XXX, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154XXX, Actual Build Date 01/31/67
MCA 04909

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Very EARLY 67 Turn Signal Hood Engine Bay Harness Study
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2022, 08:25:52 PM »
Just an example of the intergrated hood lamp wiring in the the main wire loom that was used later in the production year.

Must mention that one of these four is from a pretty early car. but the original early version may have been swapped out during a repair for some reason early in the cars life. Don't know for certain



Guess we can also look fro the earlist cars with the later version as well as the latest cars with the early version by plant
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 08:31:04 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)