Topic: Brown FDR-11450-A starter relay

[67gta289]

What were original applications of the brown colored FDR-11450-A starter relay shown here?  According to the MPC, there were five different starter relays, including this one, that were replaced by B6AZ-11450-A in July of 1967.  Thanks.

[196667Bob]

John : I can tell you for sure that the Brown ones are correct for 1956-1959, and possibly longer, although I am not sure after that as to exactly when they changed to Black. I'll have to do a little digging on that.

Bob

[196667Bob]

John : In looking a little deeper, I found that on the Vintage Thunderbird Club International Forum, they note that the Brown Solenoid is correct for 1961-63 Thunderbirds. I would guess that this would be correct for all 61-63 Ford Models. In addition, they note that the Starter solenoids through 1963 had the FoMoCo script within the "Ford oval", and that sometime in late 1964, this changed to within a rectangle. They do not note when the change from Brown to Black occurred, at least in the Forum, but it is probably in their "Official Factory Specifications" Manual for 1964-66 Thunderbirds, which I do not have.

I also looked at all of the pictures of 1964 Mustangs in our "Unrestored Picture" Section, and, after zooming in to each picture, all appear to be Black. If this is true, then one could say that the change from Brown to Black occurred sometime between the end of 1963, and April of 1964.

Bob

[CharlesTurner]

It is thought that 64.5 cars could have them, although I have not run across any evidence of that or early pictures to confirm.

For some reason these made their way onto 65 GT350 restorations, but they are absolutely not correct for any of those cars.

The pace car I restored had a late April '64 scheduled build date and had the original black solenoid on it with FoMoCo oval script.

[67gta289]

Thanks for the replies

[J_Speegle]

Dont' recall ever finding or seeing a FDR-11450-A marked relay on a 63-64 built Ford.

Do have pictures of NOS B6A-11450-A in the blue (early 60's) boxes and earlier red (50's) boxes but those are marked  They all appear to be marked 2701966

Have about a half dozen brown ones in my containers but they are not handy at the moment

Brown ones were popular on early 65 "restored" cars in the 80's and early 90's. Like Charles never found one on an original car that I can recall

[196667Bob]

I contacted the Technical Editor for 1964-66 Thunderbirds in the Vintage Thunderbird Club International earlier today. He got back to me a little while ago. He said that they have determined that the change from Brown to Black was around December of 1964, but hadn't yet narrowed it down any closer. He did not address the change from oval to rectangular surround of the FoMoCo script.

Bob

[196667Bob]

A little more information on the "Brown versus Black" Starter Solenoids. A couple days ago, I was looking for something in the MCA's "1964-1/2 to 1966 Concourse Trailered/Driven" Rules, and came across the following ;

"C. Starter Solenoid: Mounted in correct location. Fine thread thin nuts on cable mounting
studs. 64?-65 - black or brown FoMoCo. 66 - black, FoMoCo or Autolite"


While this appers to be a little broader interpretation than what the Thunderbird Club told me, it does nonetheless support the fact that the change from Brown to Black occurred sometime in the 1965 Model Year.

Bob

[CharlesTurner]

The MCA rules are mainly a guide used for judging.  They can be changed when new information is found.  I have personally never seen a brown solenoid on a Mustang that was convincingly original.

What was done on one car line/plant would not necessarily have to be the same on another.

[carlite65]

i remember waay back that the solenoid rule was modified to include both types to appease some of the powers that be back then. iirc no solid proof was ever offered to support the brown claim.

[196667Bob]

Charles : I agree with your "...one car line/plant..." comment.

So, it is then both of your opinions that the Brown solenoid has not been justifiably documented for any 64-1/2's or 65's, and is thus incorrect for any Mustangs, correct ?

Thanks for both of your inputs. While this does not affect me with either of my Mustangs, it is still good to know.

Bob

[J_Speegle]

Would agree that they were not originally installed on Mustangs - at least not San Jose and don't have any documentation or examples for the other two regular car production plants either

[CharlesTurner]

Charles : I agree with your "...one car line/plant..." comment.

So, it is then both of your opinions that the Brown solenoid has not been justifiably documented for any 64-1/2's or 65's, and is thus incorrect for any Mustangs, correct ?

Thanks for both of your inputs. While this does not affect me with either of my Mustangs, it is still good to know.

Bob

My personal opinion having seen some very early cars (including 100001) with original black solenoids, I don't believe the brown ones were used.  But, as with anything in this hobby, something will pop up and refute that claim.  So... I am ok with saying black or brown on 64.5 and 65-later with black.