Topic: Another decal post- am I close here?

[marbar11]

Hey guys,

So I did a generic "decal" keyword search here last night and went through 4 full pages of posts on this topic but still have doubts/confusion about some of them for my June 64 Dearborn Mustang. I bought the Jim Osborn 64 1/2 "party pack" of decals from CJ Pony a while back and am now realizing quite a few of them aren't correct and/or may not have even/ever been used based on my homework last night.

I've temporarily taped all but 2 on in my pics below until I get some feedback here, so only the orange cubic inch and silver service ones are stuck on already, even though it sounds like there may be some debate about whether early Mustang's even had the 260 CID tag or not.

#1- Pretty sure I'm good to go on this Service decal

#2- Square Autolite on base of air cleaner in the 4 or 5 'o'clock position (not curved one on lid), and crankcase decal on lid under cubic inch one (so far so good?)

#3- Air cleaner replacement parts- I KNOW this one is wrong based on the C5ZZ number on it. Sounds like I need the plain DF-83 silver version (without the black Ford block or part number) but I'm still not positive where this one goes. I saw one pic with it on the lid/Passenger side like my pic, but a couple had it on the Driver side on the base (when the square Autolite one wasn't used) sooooo.....?

#4- Battery OK- I just realized my solenoid sit higher than some of the other pics I saw, probably because it's a Dynacorn replacement apron and the holes aren't in the correct spots. I read this paper "decal" has been seen to the left or right of the solenoid, but is mine way too far to the right here?

#5- Oil cap- were they ever used on 64 1/2's? My mom bought this car new in Chicago without any smog stuff on it (may have had a breather tube on at one point) but had to have the oil filler plate installed behind the water pump when she moved to California in 1967 so it's kind of a Frankenstein set up. Somebody routed the breather hose to the air cleaner on the passenger side rather than the driver side, but I digress. Should I stick this one on or no?

#6- Radiator support- sounds like majority says this wasn't used so I'll probably leave it off, unless.... And yes, that creepy aluminum radiator will be replaced with a black OEM one next month!

#7- NO FRONT STICKER, or was there? The great debate continues!   Any other comments/critiques on the engine itself?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Mark

[Bob Gaines]

Since you are going to all the trouble of nuance detail stickers then I would suggest working on some of the more noticable out of place items. I would paint your generator fan/pulley black and get some tower clamps for your radiator hose .  Would also confirm the changeover time for the fuel pump from clamshell to button top. Hopefully your car would use the clamshell rebuildable style and if so change it out. Those early pumps are not in high demand and are still relatively inexpensive and rebuildable .Kits are about 35.00. 64 1/2 is out of my comfort zone so you will have to confirm with Charles or others. The biggest visual out of place thing is the radiator which most likely you already knew that. I would strongly consider replacing it with a comparable radiator of the Ford design. Just some observations as you requested. 

[marbar11]

Thanks Bob. I have the tower clamps (and stamped hoses) from Marti Auto and they will be going on when I get that correct, black radiator next month.

The gen pulley has been natural as long as I can remember (and considered concours correct from what I read) but I still may paint it black down the road.

As far as the clam shell style pump, I've been looking around for a while but just can't spend what people want for a 3734S original Carter right now. I just checked and there's only 1 refurbished one on eBay for $390 which is still a little too rich for my blood.

[CharlesTurner]

Attached pics of 29D pace car I restored.  I have found very minimal decals used on 64.5, I'd suggest zoning in on original cars/pics closer to your scheduled build date.  I have original pics to prove the car had no more than what was installed during the resto and also pics of other early cars also showing the absence of what is perceived as common decals.

Also, the original solenoid was black... 100001 also has an original black solenoid.

[marbar11]

Thanks Charles. Beautiful car (love the early style rad cap!), but are the pace cars the best examples of how all the other production 64 1/2's were built? I noticed there is no wiper bag/motor in there, and the Autolite battery looks a little different (and I've read about other differences as well) so I'm just wondering if this is how the "rest" of them came off the production line back then.

Looking at the full car pic, it looks like there is indeed an "air cleaner replacement" decal on the driver side base, a little further back where others have the square Autolite decal (which I mentioned and has been my biggest dilemma on these so far). I don't want to over "decal bomb" my air cleaner but also want it to be as accurate to original as possible. Wish mom had taken some pics of the engine brand new but most mom's aren't into things like that!

As far as the brown solenoid, now you've got me worried. I've always believed/heard the 64 1/2's used a brown one, and the judging rules state "black or brown FoMoCo solenoid" so I guess my question is, what cars used the brown one if mine didn't?

[carlite65]

w/washers were an option. that battery looks 'different' because it is an original not a repro. you can bet that car is 100% correct. i have seen it numerous times and also had the pleasure of judging it at several mca national shows.

[marbar11]

Gotcha- I thought that might be the case with the battery. Not sure if I've ever seen a good close up shot of an original like that before.

So what's up with that brown solenoid then? I'd hate to meet ya at a show someday and have you say"I told you about that brown one Mark!" 

[J_Speegle]

Not a 64 1/2 focused guy so I'm going to ask what may be a silly question. Does he have the correct crankcase ventilation configuration?

Looking at pictures from a group of F codes built at Dearborn in June with no breather tube or cap like the pictures above but instead all with the breather tube in the drivers side valve cover.

From top left corner clockwise
5F168xxx-5F178xxx-5F179xxx-5F187xxx



Can't be certain which or if any of the air cleaner decals are original to the cars

As far as the brown solenoid, now you've got me worried. I've always believed/heard the 64 1/2's used a brown one, and the judging rules state "black or brown FoMoCo solenoid" so I guess my question is, what cars used the brown one if mine didn't?

Earlier cars (before Mustangs) used the brown solenoids plus allot of them in the system as service replacements.  In the 70's through the early 90's allot of restored cars had them and because those cars got in magazines ( you remember those things   many others just copied and followed along.  Power of the herd. Being left in the rules is a different matter. How rules get developed and legacies should likely be another subject in that area of the site of need be. Our focus here is what was original to the car given when and where the car was built

All the cars pictured above and others around that time all had black or replacement solenoids

[CharlesTurner]

Thanks Charles. Beautiful car (love the early style rad cap!), but are the pace cars the best examples of how all the other production 64 1/2's were built? I noticed there is no wiper bag/motor in there, and the Autolite battery looks a little different (and I've read about other differences as well) so I'm just wondering if this is how the "rest" of them came off the production line back then.

Looking at the full car pic, it looks like there is indeed an "air cleaner replacement" decal on the driver side base, a little further back where others have the square Autolite decal (which I mentioned and has been my biggest dilemma on these so far). I don't want to over "decal bomb" my air cleaner but also want it to be as accurate to original as possible. Wish mom had taken some pics of the engine brand new but most mom's aren't into things like that!

As far as the brown solenoid, now you've got me worried. I've always believed/heard the 64 1/2's used a brown one, and the judging rules state "black or brown FoMoCo solenoid" so I guess my question is, what cars used the brown one if mine didn't?

Other than the paint code, pace cars were really no different than any other production Mustang built during that time.

As Fred mentioned, the washer system was an option and included 2sp wipers.  The typical battery for 64.5 was the tar top.

Yes, there's a decal on the side of the air cleaner, that's why I showed that picture.  Sorry, I was too lazy to crop it.

I've had issues with the judging of the pace car and the absence of decals.  Like Jeff mentioned, the rules evolve over the year.  With research and enough examples, changes can be recommended.  There are pics of original cars and of the car itself before restoration showing the absence of the typical decals.

Also, one last thing, the shock tower decal reproduction that has been made for probably 30+ years is not correct.  I sent an NOS one to ECS that matched a couple originals and they used it as a template to make some correct reproductions.  This may be another item that will take some time for judges to accept because most have not seen an original.  It's not a huge difference, mostly the size of the circles and print.  Check with ECS and see if they will be offering a correct repro.  The NOS one I had went on SFM5S003, the first GT350.  That car was manufactured at the end of October 1964, about the time that the decal was changed to the later style.

[marbar11]

All righty then- guess I'll go with my gut on these decals (and buy a black solenoid and correct clam shell fuel pump from Bob down the road)!

Jeff- I'm not sure the crankcase set up is correct either and I have a post about this back in March that you commented on and I still haven't figured it out. As I mentioned, mom bought this new in Chicago and may have had a draft tube originally, and if so, I think there should have been a PCV valve on the right rear valve cover with a brass elbow fitting and a hose that went to the carb spacer inlet at the rear. Problem is, there's no factory cut hole in that valve cover for that brass fitting, but there is this one that was cut after in the middle of the cover and had a rubber plug in it (welded and closed since this pic).

I think when she moved to California some hack mechanic added the timing cover breather tube, cut a hole in the air cleaner and just routed the hose to it, and also added a PCV valve where the draft tube was and connected that to my carb spacer. The steel fuel line was also cut (and had a rubber hose added) which may have been part of a KarKit you educated me on.

Wish my engine could talk and just TELL me what it looked like brand new at this point!

[CharlesTurner]

If the intake manifold dates to the car, then it may have had the road draft setup.  The Bob Mannel smallblock book should go into those details.

The PCV setup is ideal, so unless you have compelling evidence to go with a road draft, you may want to consider the PCV system.