Author Topic: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt  (Read 2805 times)

Offline 67convt

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« on: March 24, 2016, 12:26:42 AM »
1 year ago I purchased an unrestored 1966 GT convertible, Dearborn built car with a very late build date (09V).  This car has been off the road since approx 1992 and mostly was always garaged - even by the original owner.  The car is still all original with the exception of the paint on the hood and front valance that were repainted in 1988 due to a garage accident by the original owner.  The remainder of the paint as well as the rest of the car’s exterior and the entire interior, trunk, engine bay and undercarriage is in original condition with all correct, date coded parts, a lot of paint daubs and is in really nice shape (it still has the original white convt top which still looks new).  The car has all the original, undisturbed GT components and has 60,770 miles.  It was driven pretty much only by the original owner - the 2nd owner drove the car about 100 miles total from 1992-1995 and I’ve put 15 miles on it.

My question is about quarter panel ornaments located directly in front of the rear wheels.  I understand that on 65/66 GT cars this quarter panel ornament trim, as well as the rocker moldings, were factory delete items on GT cars.  This car has the quarter panel ornaments installed on it and so one of the guys from my mustang club mentioned that either the original owner added them or the car is a fake GT - it's a verified, original factory GT car.  I didn't pay any attention to the ornamentation until I removed the front grill when I was cleaning the car a few months ago.  I noticed that on the radiator support are all of the original factory applied markings that reflect the trim level, several options, paint code, rotation numbers, etc.  Looking through Kevin Marti's Tag Book and doing a search on this forum I was able account for all of the markings except for one that is located on the far upper left, passenger side area.  The marking in this area is QT - which at first glance I thought perhaps was a poorly written mark for GT but GT is already marked on the driver’s side area of this car's radiator support and the QT is clearly identifiable.  I have not been able to find anywhere documentation or mention of a QT radiator support marking.  Initially, I couldn't resolve what QT might possibly stand for until I looked at the Kcode.net website.  Under the section titled "Identifying the True Factory GT for 1965 and 1966 Mustangs" in the first section, paragraph number 7, I read where the editor noted that the "scoop ornamentation" (i.e. the ornaments on the quarter panel) on a factory GT could have been special ordered but that they were most likely a dealer install.  Well, that got me further thinking that since this is a very well preserved, unrestored GT car perhaps the QT marking on the radiator support might possibly be a factory designation for "Quarter Trim" to be added to a GT car - if the buyer perhaps optioned for it?  I’ve spoken to the 2nd owner of the car and was told that the quarter panel ornaments were installed on the car when he bought it.

I set about trying to locate the build sheet and looked in all of the usual spots -  i.e in the wiring loom behind the instrument panel, removed the seats and looked under them as well as the carpet and underlay but I could not find a build sheet.  Interestingly, in the wheel well area located inside the trunk under the driver’s side fiber board extension there was a piece of paperwork from the factory that was (crumpled up) titled “Left Side Final Line and Test Roll Repair Traveler.”  On this form the only area that was marked was “Metal.”  It was circled on the form under the section titled Ext. Enamel.  Not sure what this means but also written on the form in the section for Serial Number was 725069 which is not the last 6 digits of my car’s VIN – weird.  So anyway, I decided to look at the quarter panel ornament attachment screws from inside the car behind the rear quarter windows to see what they look like and if perhaps that might help somewhat in determining when they were installed.  The watershields and the "stickum" that holds them in place sure look undisturbed and factory applied in appearance so I didn’t want to touch them.   I instead lowered the top and removed the arm rest panel piece and what was needed from the well liner cover so I could take photo's of the attachment screws from the inside of the quarter panel – I’m here to tell you that taking photo's of the area behind the quarter windows was really tough and I was only able to partially reach into that tight area and photograph the top screw aiming my cell phone camera as best I could into that area.  I was unable to photograph the lower screws because they were too far down and in a very hard to reach, dark  area but after using a flashlight to look at them I can tell you that they look identical in appearance to the top screws.  I do not know what a factory install of these screws should/might look like but there’s no way to get behind the quarter window to attach the screws without removing/disturbing the watershields and they do not look disturbed. Please let me know if you think they look factory applied.

Please take a look at the photo’s I’ve included and let me know what you guys think about the QT marking on the radiator support, the originality appearance of the watershields and stickum, and the quarter panel ornamentation attachment screws and let me know if you've ever come across a QT marking being used on the Dearborn line (or at any other factory) on a 1965/66 radiator support.  Maybe this will lend some support to what was written on the Kcode.net website about the quarter panel ornamentation potentially being a special order option on GT's.
Thank you,

Dana Malec
Herndon, VA

Offline Bob Gaines

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9341
Re: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2016, 01:41:40 AM »
You may already know this but the markings on the radiator support were made prior to the engine compartment /radiator support being painted . It was marked on the bare metal and is now leeching up through the thin top coat.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Richard P.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 414
Re: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2016, 09:07:38 AM »
Dana you have a really nice looking car. You and I have discussed your car before. My question was then and now is, does your car's rear brake line attach like a factory GT Mustang and are there spacers in the rear frame rails to stop them from being crushed when tightening the exhaust bracket.? The factory GT Mustangs had the brake line rerouted because of the rear exhaust pipe. I don't think that 1966 Dearborn Mustangs had build sheets so I doubt that you'll find that.   

Offline Hipo giddyup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1207
  • There is no end to doing right. Giddyup!!!
Re: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2016, 10:58:36 AM »
 First, I am definitely not well versed on all the GT items or details to distinguish if it is real or fake. But, I have always heard that if you wanted something special, money talks. I'm sure that Ford would add whatever was on the shelf if the buyer wanted it so. Just look at the special paint options back then where you could get your mustang painted school bus yellow, the color of your favorite lipstick,  etc. Perhaps that is what the original owner requested?? Or did the assembly line worker make the mistake..What is usually typical may not always be so? I worked at a Toyota dealership back in the day and remember them swapping the wheels from a 4runner to a  4x4 Toyota truck because that was sealing the deal ...   My 2 cents....
1967 Springtime Yellow Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Metuchen built, Nov. 17th 66'
1966 Sahara Beige Coupe, 289 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, July 21st 66'
1964 1/2 Pagoda Green Coupe, 260 2v 3spd, Dearborn built, June 30th 64'
1966 GT350 Fastback clone, 289 HiPo, 725cfm Holley, 4spd, SanJose built, Nov 25th 65'

Offline rocket289k

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
Re: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 11:54:59 AM »
This is very interesting.  One thing in the car's favor to this being a Factory GT is the factory dual exhaust reinforcements clearly visible in Photo #20 (I've reattached the photo and highlighted those areas).  "A" code 289 cars came from the factory with single exhaust (unless they were a factory GT).  Only "A" Codes with the GT option and K codes (GT or not) had factory dual exhausts.  I personally have never seen a factory GT with the quarter trim ornamentation.  However, I've learned a long time ago to never say never with Mustangs and Cougars that Ford manufactured in the 60's.  I'm sure taking the photos of the quarter trim fasteners was a pain. 

Regards,

Ron
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 12:00:37 PM by rocket289k »
1965 "A" Code 289 Mustang GT - Planned Build Date July 19 / Bucked July 21 Metuchen / Factory AC & PS / C4 Auto / 3.00 open

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24612
Re: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 05:18:08 PM »
My question is about quarter panel ornaments located directly in front of the rear wheels.  ................ I was able account for all of the markings except for one that is located on the far upper left, passenger side area.  The marking in this area is QT - which at first glance I thought perhaps was a poorly written mark for GT but GT is already marked on the driver's side area of this car's radiator support and the QT is clearly identifiable. .............  Under the section titled "Identifying the True Factory GT for 1965 and 1966 Mustangs" in the first section, paragraph number 7, I read where the editor noted that the "scoop ornamentation" (i.e. the ornaments on the quarter panel) on a factory GT could have been special ordered but that they were most likely a dealer install.  Well, that got me further thinking that since this is a very well preserved, unrestored GT car perhaps the QT marking on the radiator support might possibly be a factory designation for "Quarter Trim" to be added to a GT car - if the buyer perhaps optioned for it? ................................

Hi Dana  - A few thoughts

The quarter ornament was not a "option" - don't' believe you will find it listed in the sales book as something that could be ordered with the GT package

Does you car has a special order DSO?

I seem to recall seeing the possible QT before  - sorry not in pictures but as you mentioned it could have been a poorly written GT so without documentation can't way for sure





I set about trying to locate the build sheet and looked in all of the usual spots -  i.e in the wiring loom behind the instrument panel, removed the seats and looked under them as well as the carpet and underlay but I could not find a build sheet.  Interestingly, in the wheel well area located inside the trunk under the driver's side fiber board extension there was a piece of paperwork from the factory that was (crumpled up) titled Left Side Final Line and Test Roll Repair Traveler.”  On this form the only area that was marked was Metal.”  It was circled on the form under the section titled Ext. Enamel. Not sure what this means but also written on the form in the section for Serial Number was 725069 which is not the last 6 digits of my Car's VIN – weird.

Travelers sheets would identified mistakes or flaws found that needed correction and filled out by that inspector. Sounds like a paint flaw that was repaired. Sometimes, on paint flaws) you'll find paint overspray on the sheet. Could be from your car or you car was just a trash can for the page ones the painter was done with it. Normally its the rotation number of the car rather than the sequential number used on the form


............The watershields and the "stickum" that holds them in place sure look undisturbed and factory applied in appearance so I didn't want to touch them. ............. Please let me know if you think they look factory applied.

Just depends on the worker IMHO have seen the stuff moved yet looked undisturbed many times



Please take a look at the photo's I've included and let me know what you guys think about the QT marking on the radiator support, the originality appearance of the watershields and stickum, and the quarter panel ornamentation attachment screws and let me know if you've ever come across a QT marking being used on the Dearborn line (or at any other factory) on a 1965/66 radiator support.  Maybe this will lend some support to what was written on the Kcode.net website about the quarter panel ornamentation potentially being a special order option on GT's.

Have seen very few documented cases where GT's were equipped with non-GT features over the last 50 years. Seen thousands of owners with claims. Only have seen one case where the item (rocker panel molding) was supported and accepted as original - but as a dealer installed option.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Richard P.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 414
Re: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 09:44:47 PM »
Dana is it possible to post a picture of the rear metal brake line where it connects to the rubber line? That would really help.

Offline 67convt

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 11:27:10 PM »
Jeff,

This car was ordered/delivered to Monroe Ford in Silver Spring, MD and it still has the original metal Monroe Ford logo attached to the tail panel.  The original owner lived nearby in Bowie. MD and the car has never left the Washington DC area.  Interestingly, the DSO on this car is 17 which doesn't exist for a 66 car but it's the DSO for Washington DC starting in 1967.  I have the original owners manual that is stamped with the dealers logo and address, the warranty card and a copy of the original title.  The car was sold to the original owner on 17 Aug 1966.   The car's date code is 9 Aug so I guess since it was a very late in the year build the factory must have already switched over to using the 1967 DSO for Washington DC and that's why the DSO on this car is 17?.  Another unusual occurrence.

Offline Richard P.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 414
Re: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2016, 08:34:24 AM »
I also owned a 1966 Mustang Coupe that was sold new at Hill and Saunders Ford in Wheaton, Md. that had a DSO of 17. There was a change over period from DSO 26 to DSO 17 in later 1966 production year for Washington, DC.     

Offline WT8095

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Dave Z.
Re: Unusual radiator support marking on unrestored 66 GT convt
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2016, 10:36:38 AM »
Playing devil's advocate here: is it possible the marking is not "QT"? The left character could be a "6" or even a roundish lowercase "a". The right character could be an "x" instead of a "t". Just tossing it out there for consideration.
Dave Z.

'68 fastback, S-code + C6. Special Paint (Rainbow promotion), DSO 710784. Actual build date 2/7/1968, San Jose.
'69 Cougar convertible, 351W-2V + FMX, Meadowlark Yellow.