Author Topic: Concours/ Unibody Restoration  (Read 3049 times)

Offline Drosk

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Concours/ Unibody Restoration
« on: February 21, 2016, 11:57:07 AM »
In general what is considered Concourse when restoring a unibody? Does the car have to be the original color? Most of these old unrestored mustangs have extensive rust damage and require new floor, trunk, quarters, doors, frame rails and dog house. When this much of the car is replaced what does it do to the value of a collector car? What do you do about the VIN# if the apron is replaced?

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Concours/ Unibody Restoration
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2016, 12:38:07 PM »
In general what is considered Concourse when restoring a unibody?
Appearance as original.
Does the car have to be the original color? 
No. But you will have points deducted because - "Paint not as original".
Most of these old unrestored mustangs have extensive rust damage and require new floor, trunk, quarters, doors, frame rails and dog house. When this much of the car is replaced what does it do to the value of a collector car? 
It depends. If the restoration uses reproduction parts, and you cannot tell without removing and/or measuring them, it is not a problem. In the Thoroughbred or Unrestored classes, it is.
What do you do about the VIN# if the apron is replaced?
A good question. A difficult answer. A new fender apron can have the area of the old VIN inserted, sometimes you cannot tell. However, in some states, that practice will get you "20 years".
One of the ironies is that a 65 Mustang Hardtop I-6 3 speed with no options will score higher than a 69 Mustang Mach I with every option available. The answer is there are more inspected areas that would get points deduction. The value on the other hand is way different.
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline Drosk

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Re: Concours/ Unibody Restoration
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2016, 06:36:31 PM »
Thanks for the info Jim. A few years ago I finished a 1970 Grabber Green Mach 1. It was a complete rotisserie restoration that needed major unibody repair. The car turn out great but I always want to do better. I would enjoy restoring more Mustangs and would like to do it to the highest caliber. Concoursmustang.com is a very good resource and I appreciate everyone's opinion.
When you refer to Concours as "appearance as original " does that mean appearance of an original Mustang or the appearance of that particular mustang when it was new? Can options be added? Different engines etc...

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Concours/ Unibody Restoration
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2016, 08:20:41 PM »
Most of these old unrestored mustangs have extensive rust damage and require new floor, trunk, quarters, doors, frame rails and dog house. When this much of the car is replaced what does it do to the value of a collector car?

Don't believe you will find that "most" of the old unrestored cars have extensive rust damage as there are tens of thousands that do not. But it seems that there are plenty that are rusty but choosing to start with such a car is a choice not a requirement.



When this much of the car is replaced what does it do to the value of a collector car?

Depends on the car and potential buyer in my experience. Personally I would not even consider such a car no matter how rare and have demonstrated that over the last 45 or so years. Nor would I recommend them to anyone I look at cars for and they are told exactly that when we begin or relationship.


What do you do about the VIN# if the apron is replaced?

That is a personal and a legal issue and its discussion would take over this thread quickly. Plenty of discussion on this site and others


When you refer to Concours as "appearance as original " does that mean appearance of an original Mustang or the appearance of that particular mustang when it was new? Can options be added? Different engines etc...

IMHO (and possibly many others) restoration is putting the car back the way it was originally. Changing engines, transmissions and other options so that they no longer match the original VIN or list of how they were built is not restoring but modifying.


Appearance as original would be back to the way the car was built (with documentation) or as Ford wanted it to be built if the owner chooses to correct mistakes or errors that may have been done to that one particular car. But that last description is a choice and a personal one. On this site IMHO concours is not the same as the term used in Concours De Elegance events and those sorts of restorations. Believe it might be better linked to the term "For Show" or "To a High Original Quality/Detail"
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 10:36:06 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Drosk

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Re: Concours/ Unibody Restoration
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2016, 09:10:08 PM »
Thank you for your opinion Jeff. I will continue to look for a project car that is in good condition. I don't want to spend the time and money on a car that is not desirable to collectors.

Offline Drosk

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Re: Concours/ Unibody Restoration
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 08:05:58 PM »
Jeff or anyone
Would you consider a unibody with any rust damage or repairs and if so to what extent? I am looking for some guidance on what condition car I should be looking for, to restore, to be a good collector car.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Concours/ Unibody Restoration
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2016, 08:30:42 PM »
Thank you for your opinion Jeff. I will continue to look for a project car that is in good condition. I don't want to spend the time and money on a car that is not desirable to collectors.

Please don't misunderstand my meaning. There are plenty of rusty cars that have been repaired and the owners enjoy them. Unless your int he business of building and selling cars you should IMHO be concerned about how you feel about and will enjoy the car. The amount of money often spent and normally not counting your time and effort is not often returned to you when you sell one of these cars but you need to feel comfortable with your choices and what you choose to put into a project.

In many cases (for a restoration project or non-project) I believe you will find that the overall cost may be less if you start with a car that is more original, more complete and has the smallest amount of repair required - either from rust or prior accidents. I have always lived in a part of the US where rust is minimal or a non-issue so I'm spoiled.  Because of this I tend to not consider cars with rust - most of the time I've sold the cars immediately once rust was discovered. I can only recall three cars I've purchased since the mid 70's that had what I would call rust but have been involved with allot of cars and owners with rebuilt rusty cars.

Others have chosen to repair damaged cars due to the rarity or perceived future value. It's an individual choice for each of us. For more common models I believe we will find that most here would choose a car that does not have stories or issues (Panels with VIN's having been replaced)  just because it would be easier to find another car without those issues and potential problems.

Everyone seems to want that perfect car that they can drive on the weekends, enjoy, and increases in value and makes them at least a small amount of profit when if comes time to well.



Would you consider a unibody with any rust damage or repairs and if so to what extent? I am looking for some guidance on what condition car I should be looking for, to restore, to be a good collector car.

"A good collector car"  can mean different things to different people. Since each car is individually different and unless you have a specific model your interested in and nothing else, you have to evaluate IMHO each car as it becomes available, be educated on value (to you), issues,  and costs so that you can quickly react.

Right now low mileage unrestored cars in great condition are very interesting to many but not everyone is very valuable and you need a keen eye (or some help from someone with that ability) to know the difference.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)