Topic: windsor or cleveland?

[austr6]

silly question i know,
what engine block would have been originally installed in my 66 Mustang, SJ plant, may 20th build date, A code, DSO71, GT fastback ?
WINDSOR or CLEVELAND or possibly either or??

Thanks for your reply's in advance .
Richard.

[suskeenwiske]

Not a silly question at all. Though not generally referred to as a Windsor, it is a Windsor simply because it was built by Fords' Engine Plant in Windsor, Ontario. I think it was 1969 when Engine production started in Cleveland, Ohio and is ultimately why there is a reference to the two different Engine Plants, particularly when talking about the 351 Engines.

Hope this helps.

Ray

[67gta289]

Ray,

The Cleveland plant has been around for a lot longer than that!  I have a Nov 66 built Cleveland V8, but it is a 289.

The "Cleveland" engine designation for the 351 was because it was so different from the 351 made in Windsor.

[WT8095]

From www.classicmustang.com/casting_numbers.htm:

The 221, 260, 289 were originally designed for the Fairlane and produced only in the Cleveland engine plant from 1962-1965. The 1964 289 casting number for all 289s was C4OE-6015-C (later an F suffix). In 1965, this number was changed to C5AE-6015-E for the 289 2V, 4V and Hi-Po (note the change to full size Ford designation and 6 bolt bell housings).
 
In mid-year 1966 the Windsor plant also began producing 289s. The casting numbers for these were (C6AE-6015-C with a "289" and "WF" in the lifter valley. In 1967 both Cleveland and Windsor produced 289s using earlier year casting numbers but with updated date codes. These two blocks were interchangeable, but there were probably some minor differences. Near the end of the 1967 production run, Cleveland ran out of 289 blocks and substituted their new 302 block, C8-OE-6015-A and marked with 302 in the lifter valleys. This block wasn't intended to see action until 1968.
 
Note these 302 casting numbers returned to the intermediate size Ford or Fairlane lineage. Hence, a late model 289 coming from the Cleveland plant might have a 302 block with 289 innards. The Windsor plant had an abundance of 289 blocks for 1967. In 1968 Cleveland only made 302s, while Windsor continued with the 289s. It appears Windsor also tooled up for 302s but the plug was pulled before they got to make any.
 
They did however, design and produce a 302 block that was used on 289s after the stock of 289 blocks was depleted. The number was C8AE-6015-B with 302 marking in the lifter valley. At the very end of the model year some additional 289 blocks must have been discovered as the older C6AE-6015-C blocks appeared again. In 1969 Cleveland continued with 302 production. Windsor dropped 289 production and took up the 351. In 1970 Cleveland came out with its newly designed 351.

I'm trying to find sources to corroborate this information for a timeline of Ford engine production I'm working on. I'm tying it to information on engine tags and ID decals.

[67gtasanjose]

From ww.classicmustang.com/casting_numbers.htm:

I'm trying to find sources to corroborate this information for a timeline of Ford engine production I'm working on. I'm tying it to information on engine tags and ID decals.

For your research...Keep in mind that the Thermactor cars could play a unique roll in your work. Something tingling in the back of my brain told me to add this into the discussion. (could be a reference out of another thread which may or MAY NOT have any merit) Something tells me the 66/very early 67 was built at one plant and from that point on, the other plant...but again, I am no expert here (just that stupid little tingling in my brain)

[WT8095]

For your research...Keep in mind that the Thermactor cars could play a unique roll in your work. Something tingling in the back of my brain told me to add this into the discussion. (could be a reference out of another thread which may or MAY NOT have any merit) Something tells me the 66/very early 67 was built at one plant and from that point on, the other plant...but again, I am no expert here (just that stupid little tingling in my brain)

Haven't heard that before, but I'll watch for it. Thanks!

[jwc66k]

silly question i know,
what engine block would have been originally installed in my 66 Mustang, SJ plant, may 20th build date, A code, DSO71, GT fastback ?
WINDSOR or CLEVELAND or possibly either or??

Either. Check the casting number, and the engine assembly date code. See picture for assembly date code location.
Also, the 221, 260 and early 289 engines were five bolt. Six bolt blocks started with the C5xx- castings.
Jim

[suskeenwiske]

The Cleveland plant has been around for a lot longer than that!  I have a Nov 66 built Cleveland V8, but it is a 289.

Yes, I believe it was the early 50's when the Cleveland Engine Plant started production but it was my understanding that the 289's for Mustangs were only produced out of Windsor. I received this information from James Carvell, since passed on, who worked at the Windsor Plant. I guess even an employee can be incorrect and requires verification.

Sorry austr6, guess it's back to square one.

Ray

[Smokey 15]

Think we've gotten well off the original intent and discussion.

Sorry 'bout that. I know I was a part of that. I thought it was Cleveland engine, not plant.

[J_Speegle]

Yes, I believe it was the early 50's when the Cleveland Engine Plant started production but it was my understanding that the 289's for Mustangs were only produced out of Windsor. ...........

Though I guess the picture does not prove where the engines were going there is that picture of a bunch of Cleveland built 289's waiting for shipment in the Library. Some of the chrome valve cover engines are not assembled for the Mustangs but the DSO marked ones appear to possibly be for Mustangs that were going to become Shelby's