Author Topic: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?  (Read 3170 times)

Offline livetoride60

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Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« on: January 26, 2015, 10:47:49 AM »
After some searching, finally found a correct dated C4OE timing cover with minimal issues, including a very good impeller cavity.  I would like to protect the impeller cavity if possible, and wondering if anyone had experience painting the impeller cavity with Glyptol to protect it?  I'm leery to put any kind of paint inside my engine, but also know it took quite a while to find a good C4OE cover.  Thoughts?
'65 K code Fastback, 4sp, San Jose, 10/9/64
'66 C code Coupe, C4, Dearborn, 5/24/66
'67 Fairlane Convertible, 3sp, 200 I6

Offline GT500KR

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 11:13:08 AM »
 I've used glyptol on cast iron engine blocks, and third members, with excellent results. Cast iron is porous and has a rough texture though, where your aluminum is fairly smooth.

 Your Idea sounds great though, but I would try to rough up the surface by sanding it or bead blasting.

 On the other hand, the timing covers we see with damage like that either have lots of miles, or are the result of poor cooling system service. Neither of which are likely to happen to your car.
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Offline Murf

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2015, 11:13:48 AM »
You can prevent corrosion by maintaining your cooling system.  Test strips are available that measure the level of "bad things" in your cooling system.  Flushing and changing your anti freeze every two years or each year for some conditions will probably keep the alloy parts in your engine from corrosive damage for as long as you live.  The covering you speak of is used mostly for electrical protection but most likely will not hurt your parts if it stays bonded to the metal rather than flake off and clog your radiator.  I feel that most damage to alloy parts is done by leaving anti freeze in an engine for extended periods.  Just one persons experience.
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 12:02:47 PM »
ANOTHER OPTION:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9448.msg55608#msg55608

"Waterless Coolant" I haven't tried it but enough others have...This is my plan.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline livetoride60

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 03:25:11 PM »
Thanks everyone for the great info.  After all this, I think I'll give waterless coolant a try and leave it at that.  After reading the linked thread and some web articles, sounds like that eliminates the main source of corrosion and cavitation pitting. 
'65 K code Fastback, 4sp, San Jose, 10/9/64
'66 C code Coupe, C4, Dearborn, 5/24/66
'67 Fairlane Convertible, 3sp, 200 I6

Offline Lemondrop

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2015, 05:10:50 PM »
Antifreeze with distilled water should be fine. Change it every two years and forget about worrying. You could go longer than two but the corrosion inhibitors will last at least two years, perhaps more but then you would have to test it.


Offline livetoride60

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 05:39:16 PM »
Still going to have the problem with cavitation pitting, as water flashes to steam at hotspots.  The waterless doesn't as its boiling point is 375 F.  Plus there's no water so don't have to ever worry about inhibitors dropping out or testing.  Nice for a car that will sit a lot.  Sounds like it's worth the expense.
'65 K code Fastback, 4sp, San Jose, 10/9/64
'66 C code Coupe, C4, Dearborn, 5/24/66
'67 Fairlane Convertible, 3sp, 200 I6

Offline Lemondrop

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2015, 11:59:15 PM »
Cavitation only happens when either your have a bad engine/frame ground and/or when your antifreeze has run out of additives that coat the metal(s) in the cooling system. Cavitation also happens around the cylinder and or combustion chamber in the head, because it results from small air bubbles that ALL cooling systems have in them. The small bubbles are in the system, laying against the metal and when ignition happens the walls of the cylinders/casting expand rapidly, causing the air bubble to smash into the cylinder and implode. Kind of like sandblasting with air bubbles. Water will not boil in "hot spots" in the engine as it is combined with the Ethylene glycol (AKA Antifreeze), which raises the boiling point of the water. The timing cover would be a location that would be the coolest of the entire cooling system as it is directly in line with the coolant coming of the cold side of the radiator. Most likely the erosion that plagues these covers is not due to poor coolant but from poor grounds. I've worked on heavy duty Diesel engines that have much more stringent coolant conditions than the small gasoline counterparts. We had troubles with Cat 3406 Diesel engines back in the early 90's chewing the backing plate from the water pump. Caterpillar in an attempt to cut engine weight had moved several former cast iron pieces to aluminum. The backing plate of the 3406 water pump could be compared to the timing cover of 260's and early 289's.

HD Truck manufacturers for years had grounded the large alternators directly to the bolts located around the water pump and or thermostat housing. The alternator bracket sandwiched around the water pump, so grounding to anything in the area would mean direct contact with the cooling system. What was found was the ground for the engine to frame was normally attached to the starter lug. The entire engine ground had to pass through the starter housing, and then onto the bellhousing and through to the engine block. That proved to be craptastic and the ground would often flow through the coolant into the radiator and seek a ground from there. The ground issue resulted in erosion to the pump spacer and thermostat housings. It would look like someone had dipped the parts in acid and left them there. It would damage the parts even with fresh coolant as the electrolysis would wipe out the additives shortly after filling with new coolant. We would test it by putting a volt-ohm meter lead in the top of the radiator, directly into the coolant and check for voltage with the engine running. Fixing it required removing the factory ground and running a new cable from the alternator down to the vehicle frame.

What attaches to our water pumps that have these front timing covers? Yep, Alternators and Generators.

Offline livetoride60

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 01:28:03 AM »
Electrolysis may play a factor, but our engines have a ground strap at the rear of the enine which would direct most of the current thru it instead of the coolant.  A bad ground is still a valid point that may play a part.

However, cavitation occurs at the pump because of low pressure created at the impeller inlet.  This lowers pressure beyond the boiling point of the water / antifreeze mixture causing the water to vaporize then quickly implode back to liquid as it moves to higher pressure area of the pump.  From what I'm reading this is the main cause of the erosion.  The boiling point of the waterless coolant is much higher, reducing or eliminating this problem even at the lower pressure of the pump inlet.

These articles discuss cavitation at the pump, waterless coolant, hotspot boiling, fractional distillation of the water in an antifreeze / water solution etc...  Where are you getting that cavitation doesn't occur at the pump?  Also cavitation still occurs with the additives that coat the metal, the additives just provide a sacrificial layer for the cavitation forces as opposed to actual metal.

http://www.concentricab.com/Press-Release-Detail.asp?k_id=141&cat=8&subcat=81&subsubcat=812&subsubsubcat=812

http://www.evanscoolants.com/evans_waterless_engine_coolants_faqs.html

http://yarchive.net/car/engine_water_restrict.html
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 02:45:26 AM by livetoride60 »
'65 K code Fastback, 4sp, San Jose, 10/9/64
'66 C code Coupe, C4, Dearborn, 5/24/66
'67 Fairlane Convertible, 3sp, 200 I6

Offline livetoride60

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 02:00:07 AM »
Cavitation also happens around the cylinder and or combustion chamber in the head, because it results from small air bubbles that ALL cooling systems have in them. The small bubbles are in the system, laying against the metal and when ignition happens the walls of the cylinders/casting expand rapidly, causing the air bubble to smash into the cylinder and implode.

PS:  Cavitation doesn't result from small air bubbles....that IS cavitation, or water vapor bubbles in this case.  It results from rapid alternating high and low pressure waves which are caused by the rapid vibrations coming off the cylinder walls.  When the coolant is subjected  to the changes in pressure which alternatively push it above and below it's boiling point, the water in solution rapidly vaporizes forming steam pockets which then just as rapidly implode, causing a shockwave moving on the order of the speed of sound. 

Also, even though the antifreeze raises the boiling point, along with increased pressure provided by the radiator cap, it can still be exceeded in hot spots.  In that case the water disproportionately vaporizes vs the antifreeze because of its lower boiling point, i.e. fractional distillation, resulting in the steam pockets.

The waterless coolant having a higher boiling point (375 F) than water / antifreeze (223 F for 50/50, 235 F for 70/30) reduces or eliminates this problem.  This is discussed in the articles as well.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 02:19:12 AM by livetoride60 »
'65 K code Fastback, 4sp, San Jose, 10/9/64
'66 C code Coupe, C4, Dearborn, 5/24/66
'67 Fairlane Convertible, 3sp, 200 I6

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Glyptol to prevent impeller cavity wear / corrosion?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 05:25:36 AM »
Electrolysis can add to the problem, sure (as discussed) I have noticed that some reproduction alternator/generator harnesses for the early Mustangs have added a ground wire to eliminate this problem. This ground wire runs between the alternator(generator) and the main battery cable ground at the engine block. This ground wire was also added into production wiring in later years (1969-newer?, I'm not sure when exactly). Just food for thought (but this isn't "Concours")

Richard
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments