Author Topic: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is MINIMAL)  (Read 5435 times)

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is MINIMAL)
« on: July 09, 2014, 07:34:12 AM »
We have all seen the common rusted out problems on vintage mustang cowls and probably all of us know that to address the issue we must remove the upper cowl.

The one I am working on is not rusted out at this time, though I know there is likely a lingering problem up there. I had mice. LOTS of evidence of mice while this car was stored. Upon removing the AC/Heater assembly, I found other nests above the heater box and also above the left side fresh air vent. I have reached around the openings and cleared out most of the debris, rolled the car around on the rotisserie a few times, cleaned again and again and for the most part, got all of the nesting and Poo out.

QUESTION #1 Is there a less invasive way of hampering any future damage growing from any (unseen but likely) damage from the mouse urine?

QUESTION#2 Since the car has been repainted, any good way to remove the re-paint below the cowl grille, so the next paint job will bond smoothly inside of the cowl. (such as sand blasting or another media. I plan on media blasting the body while it is stripped down, I just don't know if this area will clean up good that way, or not)

This whole situation begs the comment: "What's the matter? Fecal matters!"

Richard
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 05:45:35 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67gta289

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 01:03:45 PM »
I recommend using the access plugs on both sides of the cowl (fenders must be removed).  Run a pressure washer through it to "eliminate" the elimination.  Consider adding some bleach to the mix.  Be careful not to shoot directly on the back of the fins so as not to bend them.  They are fragile in my experience. :(

The GTA I'm working on now was similar in that there were no rust holes, but there was a couple coats of paint.  I poured aircraft stripper through the vents.  Then I took a 3/4" diameter 3 foot long dowel rod and drilled a hole in the end.  Bought a couple of 3/4" copper pipe cleaner brushes and cut the wrapped wire off at the handle, sticking it in the end of the dowel.  It will fit through the access hole, and by using the sturdy access hole as a fulcrum, you can bear down and get some pressure on the brush end, scrubbing the stripper.  Another pressure washer run will help clean it out.  I think 3 or 4 applications were enough for me to get it squeaky clean.

On another car I had some surface rust, but no holes.  For that I took some 1/4" steel tubing, put a 90" sweep elbow, and pinched the end off to make a poor man's nozzle.  Adapted to my pressure blaster, and through the same access hole was able to dust the whole area to clean it up.

The bottom line is to avoid sticking anything through the vents, and don't blast them.  They warp if you look at them sideways.

Also don't blast if you don't need to - the steel is galvanized.  If you can remove the paint and it is clean, don't blast.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
7R02C156xxx
MCA 74660

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 02:28:20 PM »

Also don't blast if you don't need to - the steel is galvanized.  If you can remove the paint and it is clean, don't blast.

Thanks John, all of your ideas sound good. I'm hoping not to blast this area or any other area of the car I can get away with...but with one old Earl Sheib job and 2 Imron repaints afterwards to deal with, I am thinking this paint could be a real witch to remove, witch with a capital "B"! One +positive+ note, at least on the exterior body panels, I have the Earl Sheib & a (cheap) rattle-can primer base to possibly razor scrape the paint down to the original factory paint. But all the door jams, trunk insides etc., that will be a different story since they were all painted twice, once at E.S., and once with the Imron. I may be looking for ideas on this area as I move along.

Richard
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2014, 08:58:29 PM »
Got an idea and ran with it...

I figure on pulling out the round stacks by drilling out the spot welds. Then sandblast the rusty areas and scrub everything though the openings on each side. I have some rust along the front pinch weld, I was thinking adapting my sandblaster end somehow to an extension pipe of sorts. Then try and figure a good way of sealing the bare metal untill I get to painting in there (somehow) After getting to a satisfactory SEALED finish, weld the stacks in and "flaps" back down.

UPDATED on 8/13/2014. After wire wheel cleaning inside the stacks and the under dash side of the lower cowl, I could see there was more rust on the stacks than anticipated. The dream is over of just drilling the welds and re-using the stacks. I pulled the round stacks (collars) out by breaking the welds through the access holes I made on upper cowl panel with small chisels and a large screwdriver. They were now scrap, but the base of the cowl was still OK, just needs straightened ground down and sandblasted. See pictures in post below.

Other ideas are welcome, this cannot be the first time this has been done like this (nothing new, really)

Richard
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:53:02 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline drummingrocks

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 02:37:35 PM »
Got an idea and ran with it...

I figure on pulling out the round stacks by drilling out the spot welds. Then sandblast the rusty areas and scrub everything though the openings on each side. I have some rust along the front pinch weld, I was thinking adapting my sandblaster end somehow to an extension pipe of sorts. Then try and figure a good way of sealing the bare metal untill I get to painting in there (somehow) After getting to a satisfactory SEALED finish, weld the stacks in and "flaps" back down.

Other ideas are welcome, this cannot be the first time this has been done like this (nothing new, really)


Very good work.  I've seen others use this method, but have never seen it in person.  We had a heck of a rainstorm come through last Friday, and my '67 dumped a good bit of water on top of the passenger's side floormat.  I may have a cowl repair looming on the horizon...
Too much junk, too little time.

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 08:41:31 AM »
Quite a bit of rust within the welded area of the rings. It was a really good idea to cut into this. It looked a whole lot better under the dash than it did in this area, leading me to think rust wouldn't be much of an issue. WRONG!

1.) I'm now looking for a source of the two metal rings, sure, I can make them myself, but why reinvent the wheel.
Haven't had a chance to shop around yet, I know the whole repair panels are available.

2.) Now that you can see what I am dealing with, any new revelations on good path to follow.

Richard
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 09:32:58 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 10:37:54 AM »
I DID find this repair kit by CPC.

http://johnsmustang.com/Cowl-Vent-Repair-Collars-plastic-65-68-Mustang

Has anybody used them? I'd preffer to use metal, but this has advantages too.

Richard
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:55:51 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2014, 12:49:52 PM »
Hmmmm...just thinking out loud here...

http://www.lowes.com/pd_36433-85334-GVL0068_0__?productId=3134377&Ntt=6%22+duct&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3D6%2522%2Bduct&facetInfo=

Above, the Lowes link was the first online thought, 1/2 hour later, I bought TWO collars pictured below. Looks like it should work out, will give it a go!

Any thoughts or concerns?

Richard
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:56:28 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline drummingrocks

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 03:01:03 PM »
Hmmmm...just thinking out loud here...

http://www.lowes.com/pd_36433-85334-GVL0068_0__?productId=3134377&Ntt=6%22+duct&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3D6%2522%2Bduct&facetInfo=

Above, was the first online thought, 1/2 hour later, I bought TWO collars pictured below. Looks like it should work out, will give it a go!

Any thoughts or concerns?

Richard, are you planning on trying to weld the collars back into place?  If so, you'll need to make sure all of that galvanized coating is off of the areas being welded.  If you do go this route, wear a respirator!  The fumes off of galvanized metal are toxic!
Too much junk, too little time.

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 03:21:25 PM »
Richard, are you planning on trying to weld the collars back into place?  If so, you'll need to make sure all of that galvanized coating is off of the areas being welded.  If you do go this route, wear a respirator!  The fumes off of galvanized metal are toxic!

Understood, I was thinking of using panel bonding adhesive and several pop rivets. Then seam sealer the outside over the rivets and "tabs".

The plastic ones look OK too, and I could order some. I do not see enough wrong with the lower cowl to replace all or part of it. I just would have to do all the repair and welding before final fitting the plastic collars if I were to go that route.

As I said in an earlier comment, this cannot be a new situation. Somebody has fixed one that is roughly in the same shape as mine is.

Richard
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:35:34 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline drummingrocks

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 04:20:03 PM »
Understood, I was thinking of using panel bonding adhesive and several pop rivets. Then seam sealer the outside over the rivets and "tabs".

The plastic ones look OK too, and I could order some. I do not see enough wrong with the lower cowl to replace all or part of it. I just would have to do all the repair and welding before final fitting the plastic collars if I were to go that route.

As I said in an earlier comment, this cannot be a new situation. Somebody has fixed one that is roughly in the same shape as mine is.


You're right, it's not a new situation.  In fact, I've seen people actually successfully install the entire metal repair piece (not just the collar, but the surrounding metal too) without cutting an access hole any bigger than you have there.  Seems impossible, but I guess it could be done.  I think you'd be fine with panel adhesive.  Just make absolutely sure that all of the rust is neutralized, and be sure that whatever you use to neutralize the rust won't affect the bond of the panel adhesive.   :D
Too much junk, too little time.

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is MINIMAL)
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2014, 09:11:55 AM »
I just renamed this thread to say within the parenthesis, "when rust out is MINIMAL".

I began straightening and more scraping of the remaining crusty area surrounding the collar stacks and began finding a few pinholes.

I believe the next step is get the sandblasting done. Reevaluate, proceed as needed  :-\ So far only a few pinholes, but really, this thread began only believing there was mouse nesting and surface rust. As I dig deeper, the damage is worse, then I dig a bit more and...

Sandblasting and getting ALL the rust removed will "eliminate all of the elimination", as John previously said...Then we'll have the "Paul Harvey" on it.

Richard
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 09:20:29 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline midlife

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Re: Cowl Area Clean Up (when rust out is not present)
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2014, 10:35:15 PM »
Richard:
You may end up with nothing there---literally!

Good luck in your endeavor. 
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