Topic: 64-1/2 Dearborn Coupe Repair

[unselor]

Hello guys, new to the forum.  I've read a lot of postings here and see that some are looking for certain info on these cars.  This car was bought new as a high school graduation present for a lady that still lives here in town.  About ten or twelve years later, she sold it to my Father-in-law.  My wife was around 12 years old at the time and when she turned 15, she got it to drive back and forth to high school.  Been with us ever since but it's in rough shape.  She wants her mustang back.  It's now my job to get it back to driveable condition.  The license plate from 1986 is still in the car which was the last time it was driven.  The gas tank had rotted out and it had other issues so we quit using it.  It sat outside for several years until I built a detached garage  and moved it there.  It's been inside since but it took a beating.  So now it's in my shop in a half million pieces and repairs are underway.  I've been researching the net looking for whatever and found this site.  I will be more than happy to look for any markings or items you guys may be interested in.  I too, have some questions about the car that maybe some of you good folks can help me with.  I realize this forum is geared toward original restorations (or something like that) and her car will most probably not end up perfectly restored.  She wants to drive it again and I'm on a deadline so it's only getting repaired at this time.  I will try to save as many original parts as possible but I cannot use all NOS replacements.  She doesn't care to have a show car, she wants to drive it and I don't blame her!

I don't have the details here with me (I've misplaced them) but they are at home so I can get them for you guys but this is what I remember: VIN is 5F07F190xxx.  I think the last three is 966 but not sure.  Black exterior, red interior and has never been painted.  Every fender-bender has been accounted for.  260 engine is out and at the machine shop for overhaul work.  3sp manual trans is out and will be gone through before reinstallation.  8" rear open carrier 3.00:1 gear.  Warranty plate has Trans=1 and rear axle =1.  The DSO is New Orleans (can't remember the number) and I think the build date was 07G.  It was sold to the original owner in July of 64 according to the tab in the owners manual.  Somewhere around the 23rd of July I think.  I'll try to remember to bring all this info to work with me tomorrow.  I have the paperwork where the title was transferred to my father-in-law and it's really still in his name as my wife never transferred it to her name when he passed away.

Anyway, the radiator support has some markings that are legible but it has some serious corrosion from the battery and so some of it is missing.  It's getting replaced but I've retained the original.  I can plainly see the paint codes and "RM" below them which I understand some believe it to mean rocker moldings?  The top number is still under too much paint to make out.  I see no "BL" as some have and this car does have backup lights and rocker moldings.  No quarter trim and it does have a red pinstripe.

The horn has the Falcon Sprint chrome piece with the Mustang emblem over it.  Generator is intact but I will install an alternator since there aren't any vent fins in the new radiator support.  No PS or A/C but I'm adding A/C because a black car in South Mississippi in summer is miserably hot.  It's also getting aftermarket disc brakes on the front for safety sake.  That's about all the modifications it's getting but a lot of sheet metal will have to be replaced like floor pans, trunk panels, fenders, quarter skins, etc.  The paint isn't going to be original as I intend to try to slow the corrosion process down by painting everything inside and out.

So is there anything I should look for/at that would help anyone here?  I haven't found anything like a build sheet and I've tried to look at the places they are most commonly found like under seats, taped to wiring in dash, under carpet, on top of gas tank, in radiator support crossmember, etc.  The car is now practically 100% disassembled so I should have found it by now if it were there.  It's pretty much all there so..... 

[suskeenwiske]

You have a very late '64-1/2; just weeks before '65 production was due to start. You mentioned the lack of vents in the new radiator support. Are the old vents good enough to cut out and weld onto the new support? It's always nice if you can leave things as original as possible. Keep in mind that if you do change over to using an Alternator, there will be other parts that require changing or modification. I won't claim to know everything that will need to be changed but believe that the Instrument Panel, Voltage Regulator, Horns, Steering Wheel, Wiring, Brake Light Switch, etc. are some of the areas that will need looking into.

As a member of this Forum and a purist, I would not convert from one Charging System to another. If you can save your old Vents or find a donor if they're beyond saving, I would go with whichever works best; otherwise, I would fabricate the vents, cut the elongated holes in the new Support and weld on the fabricated Vents. With some care, it's possible to replicate the original Vents. Be sure to look for Date Stampings on any Sheet Metal you have to remove, carefully cut out the Stampings and weld them to the new Sheet Metal. If you don't plan to do that, save everything you replace should you sell it in the future; the new owner may want all the original parts no matter what their condition.

I would support your choice to add Disc Brakes for the sake of the car being used as a daily driver but again, save all of the original parts.

Do you have any photos you can post?

Ray

[unselor]

Thanks for the reply.  The vents in the old radiator support are rough.  The outboard one is gone, the middle one is still there but very thin and the inboard one is okay.  I think the battery had probably leaked at one time and corroded the metal because there are small pieces of the battery tray left, the right front apron and the radiator support got it in the corner and there's some really deep pitting in the frame.  I'm also going to replace the strut rod brace on that side due to the corrosion.  I may fab up some vents and keep the generator.  Wiring in an alternator and regulator isn't that difficult but you make a good point.  It will still function reliably with the generator.  All the old parts including sheetmetal will be saved and stored in case someone ever wants to put it back in it's original form.  Who knows, I may do that one day if I live long enough.

I did start taking pictures but it was after I had done a bunch of disassembly so none of the original condition.  I had removed some of the major components like fenders, interior, etc. years ago when I put it in the garage.  Mostly to see what kind of damage it had and what it would take to fix it.  I'll try to see if I can figure out how to post some of them when I get home.

We'll be married 30 years in October.  I have to get it back on the road by then.  I know it's a very aggressive goal particularly since at this hour, it is basically a shell and still needs alot of sheetmetal replaced but I'm hell bent on getting it done.  She's tolerated my hobbies and lets me spend money on my old cars so it's only fair that I get hers done.  She deserves it.  She won't drive it daily but she's ready to take it to the local car shows/weekend events.  It may not be ready for Cruisin The Coast this fall but I know she'd enjoy tooling around in it for a week with all the other classic cars.  If I can get it done in time for CTC, it'll be that much better.

I realize that sometimes you can put more money into an old car than what it's worth but this one has sentimental value.  I'll probably never sell it but who knows what will happen when we're dead and gone.  And I fully intend on keeping it inside from this point forward.  Also, the original owner is really looking forward to seeing it completed and she's getting up in age.  Ironically, both she and my wife have the same first name.

[unselor]

This is my attempt to post some pictures and if it works, I'll be proud.  If it doesn't, please be patient for I am no computer guru.  So, a few pictures of the car and like I stated earlier, I didn't start taking pictures until well after disassembly started.  I have several more that are mostly close-ups of certain areas like floor pans, cowl, radiator support and other repair areas. 

[unselor]

Hey, it looks like it worked!  I think.  Anyway, since I didn't have all the info available when I first posted, here's the data on the warranty plate.  The last three digits of the VIN are 660, not 966 and the DSO is 64.  Color is A and Trim is 85  and the date is 07G as I thought. 

I am curious about the markings on the rad support and I understand that some have speculated about certain ones meanings.  Do we know for sure that "RM" means rocker moldings and "BL" means backup lights?  Have there been any cars that have markings that don't coincide with the theory?  This car has backup lights but I haven't found the "BL" that should be there unless it was in the area that suffered corrosion damage.  Thoughts?

[CharlesTurner]

Yes, RM is typically for rocker moldings during that time since it was an option.  BL is also typically for back-up lights.  If you have the original wiring looms, you can check for the black wire with red stripe, which would be the back-up light lead.

[unselor]

I have been under the impression that "RM" was used by the assembly line workers to identify which side assembly to install on the car.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't these cars built with either rocker moldings or quarter trim but not with both.  The rockers were drilled or punched or, well, they had holes in them for the molding clips and the quarter panels were solid if your car had "RM" on it.  If it didn't have "RM" on it, the workers would install a body side that had solid, smooth rockers but it had holes for the chrome quarter trim pieces.  I didn't think you could order a car that had both "options".  Does anybody know of a car that had both from the factory?  This could prove or disprove the theory for "RM".

As for "BL", that one seems a little different.  I've heard of cars with "BL" on the radiator support but no backup lights and as mentioned, this car has them but no "BL".  Am I wrong on this?

[CharlesTurner]

The codes on the rad support were typically used in the same manner as buck-tags on later cars.  It basically calls out a requirement to modify the basic unit-body, typically requiring holes to be drilled or knock-out holes.

Rocker moldings required holes in the lower rocker panel and front fenders.  This was an option for 64.5-65 before becoming standard equipment in '66.

Same with back-up lights, they require the holes in the trunk turn-downs for the wiring.

[J_Speegle]

Consider also that the codes were often changed one or more times during the year, applied differently depending on shift and worker assigned to the marking task as well as not always being a direct abbreviation for the item./process