Author Topic: Help setting dwell on dual point distributor  (Read 9126 times)

Offline 65fastbk

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Help setting dwell on dual point distributor
« on: November 28, 2013, 03:49:17 AM »
Hi,

I'm trying to tune up my 1965 mustang k car and wanted to know the easiest way to set the dwell on a dual point distributor.  From what I read the dwell should be between 28-32. Should I start off with the car being on TDC?  One the dwell is set do i set the timing to 10degrees before TDC? I'm lost, please help!

Thx!

Offline suskeenwiske

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Re: Help setting dwell on dual point distributor
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 01:09:00 PM »
The Crankshaft position doesn't really matter when setting the dwell so don't worry about setting it to TDC. The easiest way to set the points, one at a time, would be to turn the engine by hand until one of the peaks of the Distributor Shaft Cam opens the points fully; pulling the spark plugs first makes this much easier to do.

I'm not positive but believe that the points gap should be around 18 thousands to achieve a Dwell setting between 28 - 32 degrees; a Ford Manual should give you the correct gap information. Measure the gap with a quality Feeler Gauge and set the first set of points. Once done do the same to the other set of points. Be sure to check Ford's recommendations regarding the Dwell Angle of each set.

Reassemble the Distributor, put the plugs back in and set the Timing per Ford's recommendations for your engine. Just for reference, the points must always be adjusted before the timing.

Hope this helps.

Ray
Ray
1965 Dearborn Coupe
6 Cylinder, AT, PB, PS, AC
Est. Build 23A

Offline Texas Swede

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Re: Help setting dwell on dual point distributor
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2013, 01:30:09 PM »
Get a multi meter with dwell being one of the measurements. Use a piece of paper and put it
between the gap on one of the points and check how much dwell you get after starting the engine. It should be around 26 and if not, use a .020 feeler gauge and set the point gap on the other poits. Retest with the dwell meter and if it's 26 do the second points the same way with a paper between the gap on the one you just tested. After testing with the dwell meter remove the paper and retest and it should read between 30 and 33. Then set the timing at 10-12, take the car for a test and if it knocks retard the timing until it stops. If it doesn't knock go up to 12-14 degrees and take the car for a test. If no knocking, continue but make sure you don't go over 38-40 timing at max throw out weights.
Texas Swede

Offline 65fastbk

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Re: Help setting dwell on dual point distributor
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2013, 01:17:40 AM »
Thanks that helped a lot!! I set it to a snug .020 on each and the combined dwell was 34 (each point was reading 25, going to fine tune it tomorrow and bring it with in range! Does any one have any idea how Many tunes out on the air/fuel mixture screws to give my self a base.

Offline suskeenwiske

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Re: Help setting dwell on dual point distributor
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2013, 01:52:05 AM »
This will vary with every engine and carburetor, fuel type, altitude, temperature, etc. Not knowing what carburetor you have makes it a bit of a guess but you can start by turning in both screws until they seat and then back-out each one 2 turns. You may have to play with this a bit. Once the engine warms up and the choke is fully open, you can make your final adjustments.

I'm Curious, are you running on high octane with any boosters and/or modifiers/additives? Back in the day Ford recommended that the 271HP 289 run on 101 octane minimum. If you're using plain high octane watch your timing carefully. Engine knock, also referred to as pinging, is caused by full combustion, (flame travel across the piston), taking place before the piston has reached its full upward travel; the piston is trying to move up at the same time the combustion is trying to push it back down...this can cause severe engine damage if the timing is not kept in check.

Ray
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 02:22:06 AM by suskeenwiske »
Ray
1965 Dearborn Coupe
6 Cylinder, AT, PB, PS, AC
Est. Build 23A

Offline 65fastbk

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Re: Help setting dwell on dual point distributor
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2013, 03:12:10 AM »
This will vary with every engine and carburetor, fuel type, altitude, temperature, etc. Not knowing what carburetor you have makes it a bit of a guess but you can start by turning in both screws until they seat and then back-out each one 2 turns. You may have to play with this a bit. Once the engine warms up and the choke is fully open, you can make your final adjustments.

I'm Curious, are you running on high octane with any boosters and/or modifiers/additives? Back in the day Ford recommended that the 271HP 289 run on 101 octane minimum. If you're using plain high octane watch your timing carefully. Engine knock, also referred to as pinging, is caused by full combustion, (flame travel across the piston), taking place before the piston has reached its full upward travel; the piston is trying to move up at the same time the combustion is trying to push it back down...this can cause severe engine damage if the timing is not kept in check.

Ray

Hi,

I'm in NorCal weather is in the 60's...just got the car a few weeks ago. It hasn't run sine 86... From what I can see its not a hipo engine ( heads and block are from a early 67 mustang. It does have a hipo balancer, hipo carb (manual choke) and dual point dist...  Not sure what the po did inside.  Should this be tuned differently ?

I'm running  92 octain out of a 5 gallon tank (have to clean the fuel tank and lines)...Should I be adding any additives or higher octain fuel... There is a gass station nearby that has 100 octain race fuel:)  with the dwell set at 34, timing on 10 before TDC, I did not hear any pings, but then again, didn't run it to long...I do know it drinks a lot of gas quickly;)

Tomorrow going to lower the dwell and mess with the timing and carb!

Thx




Offline suskeenwiske

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Re: Help setting dwell on dual point distributor
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 12:33:02 AM »
Engine tuning is based on many factors. Can you call the last owner to see if he or she can fill you in on any internal modifications that may have been made? I've seen many engines that have been built or loaded with high performance add-ons that only made things worse. If you have a base 289 for example, was it a C or A Code Engine? Are the Heads correct for the Engine? Have the Heads been modified in any way? Has the Cam been changed and if so, what are its performance characteristics? Do you have Hydraulic or Solid Lifters? Is the Intake original or has it been replaced with an aftermarket performance Intake. I can go on-and-on.

First you will need to determine which Engine Block you have and whether the Pistons are correct per the original specs. The attached photo is typical of a stock Piston. If your Pistons are flat and have four notches on the top or are domed in some manner, they likely are aftermarket replacements and may raise you compression ratio. The latter will require higher octane fuel.

Next you will need to know if the Heads are correct for that Engine and if not, what are they from? If they are correct or original, have larger Intake Valves been installed, does it have heavy duty Valve Springs or Springs inside of Springs? No matter what you have be sure that somewhere along the line Hardened Exhaust Valve Seats have been installed. If so, you can run on Unleaded Gas, if not, you'll need to add a Lead Substitute each time you fill up to prevent the Exhaust Valves and Seats from burning/eroding away.

Your Camshaft Design has to be known if it's not stock. The Camshaft determines when the Valves begin to open, how long they will be open, how far it opens the Valves and the RPM range for which is was designed. Are the Lifters Solid, Hydraulic or Roller? Does your Engine use a Timing Chain or is it Gear Driven?

The Intake Manifold, for street applications has to be Dual Plane and is likely what you have. But like all the other Engine components, is it original and designed for the Engine you have?

The Exhaust, original Cast Iron or Headers? Single or Dual Exhaust? Exhaust Pipe Diameter and Mufflers all enter into Tuning.

The Carburetor, more than any other component, is often incorrect; usually with a CFM rating beyond what the Engine can handle. Find out what the CFM rating of the Carburetor is and it's intended or original use. Whatever it is, it should have Two Primaries and Two Secondaries; the Secondaries can either be Vacuum or Mechanical in design. You do not want a Carburetor that has all 4 Barrels/Venturis operating at all times.

The Dual Point Distributor looks cool but for the street serves no real purpose; they were designed for high revving applications and the Advance Weights probably have stiffer Springs which means they won't fully advance under street or highway driving conditions. This effectively retards the timing and robs you of power. You can install lighter Springs so that the Timing will advance more quickly but will be a trial and error type of thing to find the correct combination. It would be better to pull the Distributor and take it to a Distributor Shop to have it tuned for your specific application. Does yours also have a Vacuum Advance? Personally, I would reinstall the correct Single Point Distributor and if you want, convert it with Electronic components such as those available from Pertronix.

In a nutshell, to be able to properly tune an Engine everything needs to be balanced. This means that the Air and Fuel capacity of the Carburetor cannot exceed the Intake Manifolds ability to carry it, the Valves ability to flow it, the Camshaft ability to keep the Valves Open long enough to move it and the Exhausts ability to expel it. If just one of these is incorrect, the Engine will never run properly and no amount of tuning will fix it.

Find out everything you can about the Engine, it's the only way to determine how to properly tune it. If you have a C-Code Engine and someone slapped on a 4 Barrel Intake with a big Carburetor and Headers but left the original Cam in place, that just won't work. Or if they did all that including the correct Cam but left it with Single Exhaust; again no good.

I'm sorry to be so long winded... but in actuality this is the short version. Without more and specific details, I can only be broad in the possibilities.

Let me know what you find.

Take care.

Ray
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 04:25:00 AM by suskeenwiske »
Ray
1965 Dearborn Coupe
6 Cylinder, AT, PB, PS, AC
Est. Build 23A