Topic: Early Dearborn 64 1/2 260 rear exhaust

[Dave Stribling]

Kayso, I purchased a nice exhaust clamp set for the Pace car, and while cleaning under the car, I got a JDLR (just doesn't look right) moment. The RH bracket never fit well and now I see that the holes for the exhaust mount are in the wrong location to use this bracket.  This bracket is made to hold the FRONT pipe of the middle of the exhaust, by the muffler.  On this car there are no holes in that location.  There are two reinforced holes mounted down by the tie down plates, about where you would find a dual exhaust mount (more in the Arvinode location). The driver side is correct - no dual exhaust holes. This obviously isn't working. There were never holes near the muffler and this car has the original frame rails.

I will try to post pictures soon, my stupid FTP won't let me in. Delonzo in Indy says there is a special early RH mount, and he sent a pic, but it doesn't look right either. - Dave

P.S. - If you can post some pics, you are a better man/woman than I. I'm going to go shoot my ftp.

[CharlesTurner]

I'd like to see pics as I have a pace car coupe in the body shop and was not sure of the correct frame rail hanger config.

[J_Speegle]

Seems like allot of running changes in the exhaust department that first year or year and a half. Pictures would help then we can work from there and maybe fine some others to share and discuss

[Dave Stribling]

The two mounting holes are in the middle of the rail. Obviously the bracket is wrong:



The marks on the rail were from me checking to see if someone had filled in some holes - nope.


Other side is fine - not a dual exhaust system



As you can see, these are reinforced holes:




Delonzo at the Mustang Ranch sent me a picture of this bracket.  He says the super early ones with single exhaust got this bracket and not the traditional one.  He just pulled a fresh 64 in with the three hole arrangement and I'm heading over there now to confirm.

[CharlesTurner]

Thanks for the pics, I will have to take some of the pace car coupe at the body shop.  It is from the Chicago area, so some rust in areas, but I think it was relatively low miles, maybe under 60k or so.  While there is rust to contend with, lots of parts are original and in pretty decent condition.  I know the rear frame rails will need some work and my body guy mentioned there was some "strange" things back there.

[J_Speegle]

Here are a couple of shots from a F code car in the 127xxx range - slightly after the Pace cars from what I can see but not by much) - sorry I don't get allot of very early Dearborn cars but a few

The passenger side frame rail with the "extra"  threaded mounting holes are there though the mount for the exhaust mount that is used is slightly forward from your example

Bracket appears to be the same/similar to the new one you provided a picture of

Threw in a picture of the drivers side hanger location also for the heck of it

[Dave Stribling]

That's the bracket Jeff.

 I just pulled in 172488, a 260 convertible built on or around June 20, This car has been heavily undercoated but I found a reinforcement plate with the holes in the correct position for the early bracket:




Can't tell if they changed the rear rails, but they covered more than they repaired. Why the plate is on the outeside is a mystery, since it matches the hole configuration of the early bracket, but they didn't use it for the latest round of exhaust.

Now back to my predicament: There would have been no reason that I would have welded up the reinforced holes from the factory. And this car was pretty solid. A shot of the car in process - unfortunately I don't have the right angle but you can see I didn't need to repair the rails:

[Dave Stribling]

Jeff, it almost looks like the bracket has been arc welded to the frame in your pictures, along the three sides.  there are no bolts in the bracket holding it to the frame.

[Dave Stribling]

Went out this morning and checked out a 64 1/2 6 cylinder coupe.  They use the same mounting bracket.  This pic is hard to see, but it has the early bracket AND the welded external plate like the convertible above. It has the three holes in it like the convertible. Sorry for the pic quality - the car is in tick land and I was using my cell phone.

[DM_1964]

Dave, here are a couple pics underneath mine (D-code - sched build date 24th March) after the tear down on the rotiessere, unfortunately these only show drivers side.

I can take more detailed (passenger side) pics over the weekend.

[Dave Stribling]

Dom,
Looks like your bracket is stick welded to the frame as well. Let me know if yours has holes in the frame.

I was able to locate an original C5ZZ bracket from Green Sales and it should be here today. I'm going to go to Delonzos - all his cars have the holes in them. I think I see a pattern here but I need more info.  If you got pics of your early car please share. - Dave

[Dave Stribling]

Here is the picture of the correct early bracket for single exhaust. The part number is C5ZZ-5A246-C and it was used up through 8/20/64



This is the one Delonzo had and what is on most of the pics.  The one they sell you for the aftermarket 260 exhaust systems is the C3OZ-5260-A, which was used on dual exhaust Fairlanes I believe.  This was standard through 66.  The 67 original piece is different as the original muffler bolted to the body on both sides, not just the DS. But I think they sell the 65 piece for 67 because the muffler is the same.

Now to go confirm the hole placements. I have a theory a-brewin'.

[Dave Stribling]

OK, I went and checked a half dozen unrestored original 64 1/2 Mustangs this afternoon, here's what I found out:

1. Two cars, one #1043xx built March 25 and #1473xx built May 23-ish both had their RH exhaust mounted bracket welded to the frame.  No bolts and no holes. This is consistent with the pictures Jeff and Dom supplied.

2. The remainder, cars 166xxx-204xxx built between June and the end of July had a 3/16 plate welded to the outside of the frame rail with the proper three holes for the early bracket.

3. August 20 they changed the RH bracket to the C3OE part and put two vertical holes in the side.

So, unless someone has a better theory here's mine: Some if not all the frame rails didn't have the bolt hols and internal reinforcing to install the RH bracket. So early on they just tack welded the bracket in place, and later they decided that the permanent welding of the bracket wasn't smart, so they added the plate to the outside of the frame rail and welded it into place.  I further speculate that production said to use up these frame rails and fix them on the line rather than stop production (5 months? Really?), because the problem was solved with the retool for August.

Which would explain why I ground the stupid thing off 20 years ago when I bought the car - Probably thought the boneheads at the muffler shop did that. And there no holes behind.

SO MY NEXT QUESTION: Does anybody have an unrestored car with the holes in it and everything nice and tidy?  If someone can prove that some of them DID come through with the correct mounting then I don't have to weld my bracket to my car. But for now I haven't seen anything that would tell me I can do anything other than weld it.  Please post if you have pics!!! </B> - Dave

[DM_1964]

Looks like your bracket is stick welded to the frame as well. Let me know if yours has holes in the frame

I have some holes further up the rail, and holes on directly opposite the welded plate on the other rail.

I agree with your comments, lets see if there's anyone else that can contribute.

What exhaust system are you going to use when it comes time to choose.
I'm trying to get some interest, see thread: http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=6754.new#new
Would be good to get a few ithers on board..