Topic: Door - fender - rocker - molding alignment concerns - question

[Angela]

Guys, you may have seen I've posted a few questions about rocker panel moldings. In the process of installing my rocker panel moldings, I have discovered that I may have an alignment issue on the driver's side, where the bottom leading edge of the door meets the fender and rocker panel.
Eons ago, when I put the door back onto the car after repaint, I thought I'd done a pretty darn good job of aligning the door to the body. The body lines, everywhere except the junction noted above, are phenomenal.  Everything I'd read stated to ignore the alignment between the door and fender... which is good since the fender was not yet installed when I aligned the door. :-)
When the fender was installed, I had to pull the bottom edge of the fender outward to obtain decent alignment with the bottom front edge of the door. At the time, I thought this was OK. BUT, now, when trying to install the rocker moldings, I realize that pulling the fender outward to align with the door might have been a bad idea.
At the junction between fender and rocker, the fender sticks out beyond the surface of the rocker panel by ~3/16". I'm concerned the rocker panel molding may not snap into the retainers because the surface from fender to rocker is not planar.

Against better judgement, after a couple hours I convinced myself to mess with the lower door hinge. Remember this is not a daily driver, this is my humble attempt at concours restoration, thus messing with anything painted makes me excessively nervous. Anyway, I was able to pull the front bottom edge of the door inward approx 1/16". Doing so allows me to reduce the gap at the fender-to-rocker junction by that amount. I cannot pull the door inward any further, because I can hear and feel the door hinge bolts hitting the slots in the door, meaning I've reached maximum amount of travel allotted by the ford designers.

So, I'm looking for some advice. Here are the options as I understand them:

(1) Live with the door/fender/rocker alignment as-is (very nice), which means the fender sticks out from the rocker by at least 1/8". This may mess up the ability to install the rocker panel molding. If the molding does install, I'm certain over time the molding is going to apply pressure to the paint on the fender and rub it (the paint) off. Looking at photos from the tear-down process many years ago, I can see paint rubbed off at this area, so I suspect this is the way the car rolled off the assembly line.

(2) Push the fender back in, so that it is flush with the rocker panel. This will eliminate alignment concerns with the rocker panel moldings (good). But, it means the front bottom edge of the door sticks out from the fender by ~3/16" (bad). I don't think I can live with this..... as viewed from the front, the fitment bothers me greatly.

(3) Tear everything apart...bumper/grille/fender etc so that good access to the bottom door hinge can be obtained. Remove the hinge, enlarge the holes in the hinge by 1/16" so that I can push the bottom front edge of the door inward by that same amount. Reassemble. I don't think I can swallow this amount of tear-down at this point in the restoration.

(4) Locate one of those crazy expensive "S" shaped door hinge wrenches and attempt to remove the lower door hinge from the car without removing the fender. Then make the same modification to the hinge as described in #3. I still hate the thought of all the things that can go wrong by trying to remove the hinge (think paint chips), but option #4 is less risky than #3.

Looking for advice. Tips on adjusting door hinges/alignment. Tips on installing the rocker molding. Comments on other folks cars and whether or not their fenders stuck out beyond the surface of the rocker. Comments on removing door hinges at this point in a restoration. Etc.

Thanks.

[196667Bob]

Angela : I understand and appreciate your concerns. In my observations over the years (since the late 70's), I have seen many cars where the bottom of the front fender is not in the same plane as the Rocker Panel. To me, once the Rocker Panel Molding is installed, this accentuates the problem and draws more attention to the misalignment since the molding is so flexible and will follow the misalignment, leaving a very visible curve that is readily seen when the top of the Rocker Panel Molding is viewed. IMO, this is much worse than the Door and Fender misalignment (as long as the Door/fender misalignment isn't to the point of rubbing paint off). Back in the 80's when I used to judge, the curve in the molding was a "call" for point deduction, much more so than the Door/Fender misalignment. However, that was back in the 80's.

Hopefully, some of the "current judges" will chime in as to how it is viewed "today".

Bob

[Angela]

Bob, thanks for the info! I'm more concerned about how the end result looks, than I am about point deductions (I can't imagine that I'd ever have the car formally judged). I tend to try and get things "right" no matter the effort. However, in this case I think there is significant risk to damaging stuff if I try to get the hinge out of the car to modify it and reduce the amount the door sticks out beyond the fender.

I tried an experiment.... I riveted three retainers to a piece of 12 gauge steel (about 10" on center...closer than implemented on the car) and intentionally created a bend in the steel, to mimic my fender sticking out beyond the rocker panel.

To my surprise, the molding clipped onto the retainers without too much trouble. -And, as viewed from the top, I don't really notice any waviness to the molding. See the attached photo.

So, can anyone comment as to the level of risk and difficulty to removing the lower door hinge without removing the fender? I'd really like to understand this, since going down that path is probably the right thing to do. Doing so won't make the fitment perfect, but I'm certain I can reduce the gap by 1/16" or maybe 3/32".

[Angela]

WOW, I read through the 5-page thread (which I had missed) on the position of rocker molding retainers. Tons of great info there.

The existence of holes drilled in one, but not both of my SJ fenders makes more sense to me after reading the previous 5-pager thread. I find it very peculiar that the convertibles used an "L" clip here (on the fender), but apparently not fastbacks.

Anyway, I hope I don't regret it, but I think I've pretty much decided that I need to try and remove my lower door hinge and modify it to allow the front bottom corner of the door to move inward (towards the passenger compartment) another 1/16" to 3/32". I wish there was an alternative...

If anyone has gone down the path of removing a lower door hinge with the fender installed, I would greatly appreciate tips. I think one of my concerns is finding a way to mark where the hinge is presently aligned to the body, so that I can get it back to the exact same position during the reinstall process.

[67gtasanjose]

I haven't tried it before but it seems that if you pull the splash Shield out you should be able to access everything on that lower door hinge fairly easily. Since you will be removing one of the hinges, the whole door will probably fall out of alignment some. Be sure and tape a layer or two around all of your openings or cracks between the door, the rocker panel, fender, ect.,  to keep from chipping or scratching the paint.

[Angela]

Doesn't the bracing at the rear of the fender prohibit access to the door hinges, even with the splash shield removed?

[67gtasanjose]

Doesn't the bracing at the rear of the fender prohibit access to the door hinges, even with the splash shield removed?

I haven't ever needed to try this, just an idea is all. You can unbolt the bottom of the fender too. It will flex out an inch or two, maybe wadd up a few rags to put between the fender & the lower rocker panel. I probably would not open the door AT ALL with the fender unbolted though.