Topic: Latest Hagerty value letter

[RoyceP]

A quote from the most recent edition:


"If we had to call any division the least active in this review, it would be Ford. But that?s more a testament to the heat of the market than it is a commentary on the value of fast Fords. The big players like Boss Mustangs gained upwards of 20 percent while Mach 1s grew by 12 percent. The rest of the Mustang market rose by a few points, which on its own is noteworthy considering how saturated the market is with great examples.[/size]The biggest winner in the FoMoCo camp is the Mercury Cougar. Whether this is a case of rising tides raising all ships or long-overdue recognition is hard to say, but they outperformed everything. We observed ultra rare GT-E to Cobra Jets being offered and sold at noticeably higher rates than in the previous market. Small block?powered cars saw more modest moves, but 390 and 428 cars rose by 30-40 percent."[/color]

[preaction]

Royce, its interesting I didnt get this insert as part of my recently received renewal package from Hagerty I can verify the 30-40%+ increase in values from a personal sale late last year of a 67 Cougar.

[jwc66k]

Without being offensive, what you are witnessing is a phenomenon I call "lowering your standards". Sorry, I know there are better ways to describe this "thing", but bear with me.
Here's an example: for decades, the only Mustangs worth owning and/or restoring were the 64 to 66 years and they had to be V-8 powered. There were a lot, around 1.6 million were made. Then big blocks became the rage - the 67 390, and bigger blocks right up to 1973. Remember, all were V-8 Mustangs.
The next step was the hard part - 6 cylinder Mustangs. A strange, and somewhat wonderful thing happened, 6 cylinder Mustangs began to get formal recognition at car shows. One of the Gold Card Judges that "tutored" many of us had a plausible answer - a typical 6 cylinder Mustang had few "options", so there were less items to judge and ultimately deduct points, so those cars got "gold" (say what?).
What happened next is the real world - we ran out of "classic" Mustangs. Sitting on the sidelines were the Cougar guys. They were "cousins". We shared engines, and a lot of other parts. The same relationship happened with Fairlanes and Falcons. "Restoration" began.
Am I being negative? No. Just realistic. My first Ford was a 1960 Starliner, body style 63, a Fastback Ford Galaxy. That's my roots. Damn, I wish I still had that Car.
Jim

[KevinK]

As a follow up to Jim's comments, well the Foxbody was the next cheap car.  Sure there were some collectible models. Recents months had a lot of price increases in the previously cheap cars.  Now, $10k, $15k, $20k+ prices seem to be an everyday event. Time will sort out the over priced for sale adds verse actual sold prices. I'm sure some unspent funds during Covid is fueling it as well. Still hard to imagine the $25k to $150k prices we are seeing.

[RoyceP]

I have not noticed the 390 powered Cougars increasing in value or selling for more at auction. What I have witnessed is that the educated buyers want to add a W code GT-E or a Boss Eliminator or a 428CJ / SCJ Eliminator to their collection. The word seems to be out - prices on these extremely rare cars has nearly doubled.


I don't see anyone lowering their standards except when it comes to Boss 429 Mustangs or Boss 302 Mustangs. Those cars have risen to absurd levels as the uninformed buyers snap up crummy examples for record prices.

Without being offensive, what you are witnessing is a phenomenon I call "lowering your standards". Sorry, I know there are better ways to describe this "thing", but bear with me.
Here's an example: for decades, the only Mustangs worth owning and/or restoring were the 64 to 66 years and they had to be V-8 powered. There were a lot, around 1.6 million were made. Then big blocks became the rage - the 67 390, and bigger blocks right up to 1973. Remember, all were V-8 Mustangs.
The next step was the hard part - 6 cylinder Mustangs. A strange, and somewhat wonderful thing happened, 6 cylinder Mustangs began to get formal recognition at car shows. One of the Gold Card Judges that "tutored" many of us had a plausible answer - a typical 6 cylinder Mustang had few "options", so there were less items to judge and ultimately deduct points, so those cars got "gold" (say what?).
What happened next is the real world - we ran out of "classic" Mustangs. Sitting on the sidelines were the Cougar guys. They were "cousins". We shared engines, and a lot of other parts. The same relationship happened with Fairlanes and Falcons. "Restoration" began.
Am I being negative? No. Just realistic. My first Ford was a 1960 Starliner, body style 63, a Fastback Ford Galaxy. That's my roots. Damn, I wish I still had that Car.
Jim

[RoyceP]

I bought an '83 Mustang GT brand new. It was the first new car that I ever bought - it was special enough to grab my attention. I don't think the 5 speed GT Mustangs are going to be selling for double prices like the premier Cougars have but I certainly can see the allure of special, rare, and fast ones.

As a follow up to Jim's comments, well the Foxbody was the next cheap car.  Sure there were some collectible models. Recents months had a lot of price increases in the previously cheap cars.  Now, $10k, $15k, $20k+ prices seem to be an everyday event. Time will sort out the over priced for sale adds verse actual sold prices. I'm sure some unspent funds during Covid is fueling it as well. Still hard to imagine the $25k to $150k prices we are seeing.

[jwc66k]

Instead of "lowering the standards", how about "expanding the desirable base". Soon a "C" code Cougar will be in that category as interests' expand and availability declines.
Jim

[RoyceP]

I doubt that a C code Cougar - or Mustang or Cyclone or Torino for that matter - would ever be more than a parts car in my eyes. Or maybe a car for someone else to spend time with.

Instead of "lowering the standards", how about "expanding the desirable base". Soon a "C" code Cougar will be in that category as interests' expand and availability declines.
Jim

[Deuce]

Instead of "lowering the standards", how about "expanding the desirable base". Soon a "C" code Cougar will be in that category as interests' expand and availability declines.
Jim

I doubt that a C code Cougar - or Mustang or Cyclone or Torino for that matter - would ever be more than a parts car in my eyes. Or maybe a car for someone else to spend time with.

jwc66k has it about right:  "expanding the desirable base."   It's happening and CMF is contributing. 

[jwc66k]

I doubt that a C code Cougar - or Mustang or Cyclone or Torino for that matter - would ever be more than a parts car in my eyes. Or maybe a car for someone else to spend time with.

I had the same attitude about 6 cylinder Mustangs. While you, and I, were ignoring them, they increased in demand and value. They are over 50 years old, much older than half the US population. So, keep an eye out for your next "C" code Cougar - a positive eye.
Jim

[J_Speegle]

I have not noticed the 390 powered Cougars increasing in value or selling for more at auction. What I have witnessed is that the educated buyers want to add a W code GT-E or a Boss Eliminator or a 428CJ / SCJ Eliminator to their collection. The word seems to be out - prices on these extremely rare cars has nearly doubled...................

Not sure that I would use the word "educated" without including "well funded" or some other similar term


Allot of use and others start out with less rare and cars of lesser value to begin with and upgrade as our knowledge and bank accounts hopefully increase. Also, at this given time, a fair amount of money is being moved out of other investments given the current situations as it has in the past during similar situations. Similar thing has been taking place has been taking place in real estate market. Some of the money in some cases is your tax dollars but that is a whole "nother subject

[RoyceP]

I had the same attitude about 6 cylinder Mustangs. While you, and I, were ignoring them, they increased in demand and value. They are over 50 years old, much older than half the US population. So, keep an eye out for your next "C" code Cougar - a positive eye.
Jim

If the engine is not a K, W, Qor R I am not interested. It's that simple. Only so much time in my life. Got to spend it well. I work on Shelbys and Mustangs too. A super well optioned S code might get my attention. You can have anything else.

[jwc66k]

If the engine is not a K, W, Qor R I am not interested. It?s that simple. Only so much time in my life. Got to spend it well. I work on Shelbys and Mustangs too. A super well optioned S code might get my attention. You can have anything else.

I also work on VWs. If it's important, find the time.
Jim