Author Topic: original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?  (Read 703 times)

Offline GTfastbacker

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original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?
« on: February 27, 2020, 01:33:27 PM »
Hi,
i restore all my bolts, don't like to buy repros.
Wondering, whats the correct term for these black finish?

black oxide, phosphatic (manganese's or zinc?), parkerized?

i have the choice to get it done here in germany, but need to know whats the way to go.
Thank you
Joe
Rides:
65 T-5 Mustang Convertible A-Code (1 of  5)
67 Mustang GT Fastback A-Code
68 Mercury Cougar GT-E 427 W-Code red
68 Mercury Cougar GT-E 427 W-Code green
+ a few 60ies Full Sized Fords

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2020, 02:24:15 PM »
Hi,
i restore all my bolts, don't like to buy repros.
Wondering, whats the correct term for these black finish?

black oxide, phosphatic (manganese's or zinc?), parkerized?

i have the choice to get it done here in germany, but need to know whats the way to go.
Thank you
Joe
Which black bolts are you specifically referring to? It depends on the bolt. You forgot to mention black chromate in you list.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline jwc66k

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Re: original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2020, 03:00:42 PM »
black oxide,
Black oxide (Ford finish suffix -S15) was not overly used (I have one retaining ring documented, used in C4 transmissions).
, phosphatic (manganese's or zinc?),
There are differences in these two, but Ford accepted both.
parkerized?
Not recommended.
Read "Phosphating 101" in "Processes, Products & Techniques" section before you start. Keep in mind that some hardware items are without any finish. I prefer a "lite" phosphate finish (a minute or so) to at least provide some surface protection on those. 
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline 67gta289

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Re: original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2020, 03:13:26 PM »
Also refer to the thread that Jim posted in the library area for the finish:

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=11426.0

John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
7R02C156xxx
MCA 74660

Offline GTfastbacker

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Re: original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2020, 05:12:49 PM »
i asking for these, mostly body fastener bolts and nuts
Rides:
65 T-5 Mustang Convertible A-Code (1 of  5)
67 Mustang GT Fastback A-Code
68 Mercury Cougar GT-E 427 W-Code red
68 Mercury Cougar GT-E 427 W-Code green
+ a few 60ies Full Sized Fords

Offline bullitt68

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Re: original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2020, 02:42:14 AM »
I am no expert but to my knowledge the only phosphate process used on body fasteners is Manganese, not zinc phosphate. To the best of my knowledge body fasteners are generally manganese phosphate, zinc plated, cad plated or cad dichromate plated. A good reference is on survivor car photos posted in several threads if you do a search. Using the fastener spread sheet prepared by Jim in the library is and excellent reference (the best part is the sort function) as is the Master Parts Catalogue. I am fairly new at all this myself, but learning a lot by research. You can also use the AMK catalogs as well for reference. Are you doing a thoroughbred restoration, driver or trailered. FYI hot phosphating is parkerizing. I believe that there are a few other processes like insta black for example that does not require heating etc, but I have only ever used the phosphating process that requires a heated solution and submerging the parts. I find it gives the best result as well as the best protection imo, especially if you plan to drive the car. If you have a specific question about specific fasteners and can't find the answer by searching or researching, start a thread focusing on the specific fasteners as general questions about assorted fasteners are not specific enough given the myriad of potential finishes based on a multitude of variables.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 02:57:22 AM by bullitt68 »
Mike
1968 Mustang Fastback GT 390 Raven Black, 4 speed
8R02S162374, San Jose, June 5, 1968

1967 eight barrel

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Re: original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2020, 04:20:11 AM »
There are several products designed primarily for firearm use that work for not only refinishing but protection. If you decide to play with hot processes be absolutely sure you wear all applicable safety equipment. If you're going to run Phosphate and oil you can often find good trays for chemical bathes at foodservice supply houses.

As far as AMK bolts I'm not sure why you'd be opposed. They are for the most part complete in OE markings and finish. Many are actually NOS fasteners. There is a lot of stuff I wouldn't re-use that has 50+ years of fatigue.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2020, 04:48:07 PM »
As far as AMK bolts I'm not sure why you'd be opposed. They are for the most part complete in OE markings and finish. Many are actually NOS fasteners. There is a lot of stuff I wouldn't re-use that has 50+ years of fatigue.

Have to respectfully disagree especially when mentioning markings. They have rarely been able to find sources for or stock all the different head markings used at all three plants and over time the ones they were able to supply in the early years of the business have been replaced with others.

As far as fatigue lets us consider that the metal that makes up the car is just as old and stressed as the hardware. Driveline and engine internals are IMHO a different subject since they visible can't be seen and owners often make their own choices

Just offering an opinion from a different angle.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

1967 eight barrel

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Re: original Bolts, which finish is correct in 67?
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2020, 05:04:31 PM »
Jeff: I would be less concerned with low-load items like fender and body fasteners.  I would avoid anything being used for steering or suspension items. The exception would be for the trailer queens. I posted a picture of a damaged steering coupler bolt on the other forum. Frightening to think about that failure.