Topic: Correct external door mirror for 64 1/2 early 65 mustang

[Chris]

I’m looking to confirm identification of the part number, I.D. Number and type mirror for the external rearview door mirrors for 64 1/2 and early 65 mustangs.

I’m seeing from both the 65 and 66 Osborn assembly manuals a mirror with I.D. Number C2RA-17862 called out. The mirror in the assembly manual diagram looks to be the “standard” two hole flat base/round base mirror seen on most 65/66 mustangs (think part number is C3RZ-17696-A).

The Tom Corcoran 64 1/2 - 73 restoration guide calls out a different mirror installed on “early 65 mustangs”. This is the conical shaped mirror referred to in the book as Type 1 with part number B5AZ-17696-A and I.D. Number C3RA-17682-D.

Is the conical shape mirror the most correct for 64 1/2 mustangs? Picture of one attached.

[Chris]

Does anyone have the Master Parts Catalog (MPC, 65-73 catalog) call out for the 65 mustang mirror? I have the CD version but find it difficult to use:). I could not locate the right area for door mirrors.

I thought the MPC might be a useful reference to check aside from restoration books.

Thanks,
Chris

[midlife]

17682 section: F, 1965: B5AZ17696-A, Conical shaped, not replaced 5-75
C1SZ 17696-B, Universal type, round head
C2OZ-17696-A, round head
C5AZ-17696-F, rectangular head
C3RZ-17696-A, LH, Universal type, round head, kit not replaced 5-75

[J_Speegle]

Does anyone have the Master Parts Catalog (MPC, 65-73 catalog) call out for the 65 mustang mirror? I have the CD version but find it difficult to use:). I could not locate the right area for door mirrors.

Just as a reminder - the MPC only lists what Ford had in stock and available for an application not always what was original to the car. A 67 MPC Section 17682 lists one mirror (the remote mirror) that was available for the 65-6 Mustangs as C5ZZ-17682-B. Non-remote mirrors are listed in other non-Mustang sections But no others (non-remote) were available through the MPC. This is for the driver side only - no reference I could find for the passenger side

Another source to check would have been the Rotunda sales and catalogs since that is where most dealers would have purchased the mirrors for inventory from in part of this time period so that is likely where the counter person would turn

[Chris]

Jeff, thanks for that reminder about the Ford MPC.

For the mirrors found by Midlife in the MPC, four of five are also called out in the table on page 72 of the restoration guide by Corcoran (thicker book from 1998):

- 65, B5AZ-17696-A, conical shape not replaced (type for early 65 according to Corcoran)
- 65/66, C1SZ-17696-B, universal type round head (early one screw in base version)
- 65/66, C5AZ-17696-B, rectangular head
- 65/66, C3RZ-17696-A, L.H., universal type round head (what is typically seen for non remote on passenger and driver door)

I think the 64 1/2 would have had (from the Dealer) the older C1SZ or B5AZ as they would have been on the shelf in early 1964. The pic I posted of the B5AZ mirror had a date of April 1964 on the box.

[J_Speegle]

Jeff, thanks for that reminder about the Ford MPC.

For the mirrors found by Midlife in the MPC, four of five are also called out in the table on page 72 of the restoration guide by Corcoran (thicker book from 1998):

Not a surprise that the last print MPC was used - was also used for the basis of many older books and even some today   That particular book is about 90% just a reprint of that MPC version.

Not everyone have consider the purpose and played attention to the print dates of the MPC over time

There is likely a number of people who have studied the whole process of Ford providing, supporting, updating and so on related to the MPC on the site. We could always have a deeper discussion in another thread

[Chris]

Jeff, so just as an aside, the 67 MPC would be one of the better references to have? Is this one of the bound two volume editions?

Thanks for the assist.

[J_Speegle]

Jeff, so just as an aside, the 67 MPC would be one of the better references to have? Is this one of the bound two volume editions?

Any are a help but all may have a mistake or two - a replaced or superseded part of two listed. The closer (maybe tailing your cars production period) would likely be best but then you might be leaving car you pick up that would be newer.

None of these were bound I believe. When we use to get originals they arrived as loos pages in a big heavy boxes. Ford sold binders (lots of them) to hold both the illustrations and the text. Was not unusual for the parts counter to have 4-6" of catalogs and MPCs.

Often you don't have a choice - as paper copies don't come up for sale all that often so you get what you get. There may be places that have started digitizing different years and there were individual year versions for some.

The oldest multi year version I have is from (has some newer updated individual pages in the copy) about the start of the 68 production year. Only got the text section  but that was the most important to me and keeps the size manageable

Back to the thread - maybe someone has a copy of the Rotunda parts that would show you what the dealer had to use. I don't think I have one with exterior mirrors but will check

[196667Bob]

Jeff, so just as an aside, the 67 MPC would be one of the better references to have? Is this one of the bound two volume editions?

Thanks for the assist.

No, for your case, the 1967 MPC would not be the one you want. The 1967 MPC covers only 1967 Models. The only "multi-year MPC's available that cover the 1964-1/2 through 1972 Mustangs are the 1960-68 MPC (which includes revisions from 1967 and 1968, and the 1965-72 MPC. I would avoid the 1965-72 as a "first purchase" since it was printed in 1975, and by then, many of the original prt numbers had been replaced by newer ones. The 1960-68 MPC is the one I would suggest. There are several in digital versions available, however, there is only one complete one and licensed by Ford.

The individual year ones are nice to have in addition to the 1960-68 one, however, these were all printed in January of the Model year, so that any changes made after that (especially pertinent for 1967), do not show up. In the case of 1964-1/2's, the 1964 is not applicable as it was printed in January of 1964. prior to the Mustang's introduction. The 1965 only MPC would be most applicable for a 1964-1/2, although I'm sure that there were parts that were replaced between January 1964 and August of 1964.

I have original loose-leaf paper copies of both the 1960-68, and 1965-72 MPC's that I've had since the early 80's, as well as the individual year MPC's from 1958 through 1967. As Jeff mentioned, the Multi-year ones take up a lot of space ; about 3 feet for each the 1960-68 and 1965-72, including text and Illustrations for each. I have a two-tier catalog rack about 4 feet long that "houses all of the multi-year MPC's from the 1949-59 through the 1965-72 one. I also have all of these in digital, and since that, hardly ever use the paper copies anymore. With all of the Multi-year MPC's available in pdf's, you can do about anything you want with them. Now, if I only had all of my single year MPC's digitized.......

Hope this helps in making your selection. Oh, one more thing, the 1965 only MPC is available in pdf.

Bob

[196667Bob]

Attached is information in regard to Outside Rear View Mirrors from 3 different sources ; first is the text from the "1965 Only" MPC (no illustrations are included in this MPC) ; next is the text section from the 1960-68 MPC , and a page from the 1960-68 Illustrations section (including some text also) ; finally, is information from the text section of the 1965-72 MPC, consisting of one page of text, and one page of illustrations. There are no additional illustrations in the Illustrations section of the 1965-72 MPC.

One thing to be aware of, especially if looking for a mirror as Chris pictured in the first post (the conical B5AZ-17696-A), is that, prior to 1964, this identical part number was used for an entirely different appearing outside mirror. Prior to 1964, the B5AZ-17696-A mirror was used for one that had been used since 1955 (as one might surmise by the "B5" part number), which had a similar base with the "FoMoCo oval", but had a round stainless steel replaceable head which threaded onto the base, as opposed to the conical head which was held onto the base with a post and a set screw. I have attached pictures of both. The earliest of the B5 mirrors actually had a different part number, but in the early 60's was changed to the B5AZ-17696-A.

One final thing worth mentioning ; all of the items from the MPC's shown are "Service Parts", which may, or may not be the same as Factory Parts. However, since all outside rear view mirrors until 1967 were "optional" or Dealer Accessories, and even if ordered with the car from the Factory, were shipped loose (except for the 1965-66 Remote Control Driver's side mirror) with the car for the Dealer to install (someone correct me if I am wrong on this). This would then give the Dealer the opportunity to sell the Customer a different "higher priced" rear view mirror that was available at the time, which would account for seeing so many different outside rear view mirrors on Mustangs, as well as on other models.
Personally, I have always associated the C1SZ-17696-B Rear View Mirror (Type 2 shown in the 1965-72 Text illustrations section, and Type 3 shown in the 1960-68 Illustrations section) as the "standard" Optional mirror on 1964-1/2-1966 Mustangs, probably because that is what was usually pictured in the sales brochures when the cars were shown with Outside Rear View Mirrors (see picture from 1964-1/2 Sales Brochure attached).

Hope this helps.

Bob

[jwc66k]

Attached is information in regard to Outside Rear View Mirrors from 3 different sources ; - - ; next is the text section from the 1960-68 MPC (once again, no illustrations of outside rear view mirrors are in this MPC) ;

Illustration section 176 page 20 has drawings, but it's the same as your picture 5. It is a fairly good drawing, enough to tell the difference.
Jim

[196667Bob]

Jim : You are of course correct. When putting it all together, I obviously mixed up my resources. I mistakenly noted the illustration section from the 1960-68 MPC as being from the 1965-72 MPC.

I'll go back and correct it.

Thanks for catching it,

Bob

Reply #9 is now Revised.

[Chris]

Bob,

Thank you, great resource material! I’m glad to see that the 60-68 MPC has some illustrations, it helps.

Thanks,
Chris